Zy-Nox
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Mar 06, 2005 - 03:34 |
 
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I'd only ever stop playing if they removed fouling....
btw nice work brownrob |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2005 - 04:05 |
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| Quote: |
Juggernaut
During a Blitz action, opponents may not use Fend or Stand Firm, and Both Down may be treated as Pushed instead.
I don't understand how a big guy will go down with another player while most players have bloke and big guys don't. This needs a powskull between 2 players without bloke, right?
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What i was saying is the big boy who doesn't have block will be able to treat a both down result as a push. For example minotaur rolls a both down result on a one die block normally he would go down and cause a turnover if he has juggernaut he just treats it as a push and moves along to his next frenzy block for pushing the guy back. It doesn't have anything to do with alowing you to knock the player down it just lets you say both down results are push results if you prefer a push. It couls also be usefull with frenzy players if your trying to crowd surf someone and a block skull comes up you can use it to push them instead of just ending your move and standing there. |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2005 - 06:30 |
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Captain and mUst. Get over it. Unless you only enjoy bashing the other team into oblivion these rules are an improvement. More skills, more tactics and more fun. And yes you might have to think of a game plan beyond "Knock player down, foul player. Rince and repeat". I consider that a bonus.
If you want an idea of why Razor sharp claw needs to be removed and fouling toned down follow the Ulthuan tournement. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2005 - 06:45 |
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| thmbscrws wrote: | TTM is roughly as reliable as it always was. Now it boils down to a simple 4+ to toss 5 squares and a 4+ for the average gobbo to land. Normaly the furthest a TTM pass would be done is a short pass which is six squares so their isn't a lot of distance lost here and if the big boy has strong arm it is the same distance. TTM is pretty much the same as it was the rules are just much more streamlined and easy to use.
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Players can still get 7 skills just like they always could. Standfirm will still be taken frequently on guard players like dwarves. Juggernaut is pretty essential for big boys as it allows them to blitz without being as likely to knock themselves down on block dice a big help now that big boys don't have gen skills. Fend does seem pretty worthless to me but i could see a lot of teams having one kick off return player just as a lot of teams have one kick player. Would be an excellant skill for passers on bashy teams to help compensate for a deep kick that could really ruin your day if you've got elves running through your lines.
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I think you need to read the latest version of the vault rules. From reading what you've written i get the impresion you are talking about older versions. |
As a long player of stunty teams with TTM, I can tell you the new TTM rules suck goats. Vault rule is a 4+ to throw and always scatters, and cannot use pass skill. Way it works now is a big guy with pass can make a 3+ rerolled pass attempt with a chance of it being accurate and giving a +1 to the landing roll. 4+ (50%), vs 3+ rerolled (89%), with the choice of making the TTM harder but with extra range.... throwing a goblin 5 squares is not enough, half the time they will scatter backwards and not even be in range of the TD line anymore. 
Second, read the damn vault rules. Maximum skill rolls is now 6. Stand firm is a bog standard strength skill, and without being able to try dodges at the start of your turn it becomes alot less useful than guard, mighty blow etc etc. Similarly any player that usually would want SF for its anti dodging will not take it.... so that rules out all the blitzer types... so who will take it? Maybe a longbeard on a 3rd or 4th skill.... fantastic.
Juggernaught... why? Only idiots blitz with big guys unless the situation forces it. This is another silly skill that will be 3rd or 4th on the list of skills to get. Fend... well. This is actually the closest I can see to a useful skill for elves, but still who is going to take it before block, dodge, sidestep, tackle, diving tackle, spring back etc etc?? Fend is a skill for positionals like wardancers not the entire team. 
Kick off return.... Hahahahaahahaha. You cannot advance over the half way line with it, making it just an extra small move on your thrower, as if they dont have enough things to get before it like sure hands, accurate, safe throw, leader, nos etc etc etc..... *shakes head* 
The ONLY thing I find improved in the vault since I last summoned the courage to read it, is that they are making the new pilling on not work with other bashing skills... BUT the way its worded doesn't give any hint as to if they cannot be combined in a particular roll or a particular block, ie. can you use PO to reroll the armour and then use mighty blow on the injury and vice versa. |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2005 - 07:28 |
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Again IMO any nerfing of One turning capability (like TTM) is an improvement. And stunty teams are made to suck, I for one don't really care if they are worse of by the Vault rules.
As for SF. Well if you are a dwarven coach and don't consider MB the must have second skill, SF will be a decent one. A lineup with most players having SF could be fun to try out.
Juggernaut is the skill for players like Minos who likes to crowd push opponents. A likely three dice blitz with little chance of failure and almost guaranteed push backs.
The new skills makes new options. If you don't like them don't pick them. |
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Sparticus
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
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Mar 06, 2005 - 07:54 |
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i like the new skills i think some of them like grapple will HEP elf teams break cages, fend stop dwarfs following them up ect ect...
sprilling expenses is a waste of time, i dount think its a good addition hampering teams once they get above 170 isnt any fun....
SF i agree shouldnt be a free dodge its a strong skill still..... but still should be a trait... |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 06, 2005 - 08:02 |
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Second, read the damn vault rules. Maximum skill rolls is now 6.
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Your right i misread that. |
_________________
"If God really existed it would be necessary to abolish him." - Mikhail Bakunin |
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DoubleSkulls
Joined: Oct 05, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 06, 2005 - 08:36 |
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| Captain1821 wrote: | | By the way Side Step + Guard is much better than Stand Firm + Guard. There are a lot guard side step players and everyone that was one in his team, knows their value. Everyone that faced them, know that they are a pain. |
Sidestep & Guard requires at least one double, Stand Firm & Guard doesn't for strength access players.
TBH I think we need to remember that SF as a normal skill is fine. Sure it isn't as powerful as before but it doesn't require doubles.
I like losing the dodge without failure part. IMO removing all risk from actions is a bad thing.
| Captain1821 wrote: |
"Once a Teams Value (TV) passes 1,500,000gps, then for every 200,000gp, the team must pay 10,000gps per match to cover the costs of running the team. If these cannot be paid using funds from the treasury, the debt is written off."
People like to play in high TR and like to see their teams growing over 200 TR. This rule is a killer for high TR teams.
If you like this kind of rules, you better play football manager at your PC or something, not Blood Bowl.
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You obviously haven't read the rule. Every league can set the breakpoint (1.5m) and the step size (200k) where they like. If you want a high end league just forget about it altogether.
| Captain1821 wrote: |
Fouling rules suck.
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LRB fouling rules are obviously broken. The risk reward ratio is well out of alignment. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2005 - 09:45 |
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Anyway, I have ironed out a few errors and v2 of the reference sheet can be found on the first page!
Id agree with doubleskulls that fouling as very good, you only need to look at DoubleSkulls Fouing article over on the official bloodbowl website or even watch a Wuhan or Deathgerbil match!!!  |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2005 - 09:59 |
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| DoubleSkulls wrote: | | LRB fouling rules are obviously broken. The risk reward ratio is well out of alignment. |
I think we all accept that. The problem with the vault is, it is just reducing the affect of the foul while making it alot less skillful and tactical to use. IGMEOY rules along with its +2 to injury make it a powerful weapon to take out a key player... it is just when it is used en masse by teams with 4+ DP that it becomes sick.
Here are 2 proposals I've wanted to see for some time now:
1. If a player is ejected, the maximum players on the field for that team is reduced by 1 also (like it is in most real life sports - if your guy gets ejected you're down to 10 players even after the next drive).
2. DP becomes a general trait. Claw (+2), RSC (+2) both need doubles to get so why not a +2 or +2 skill that is so easy to break any players armour while using? This adds to the gameplay of fouling, as you would then have to choose whether to get guard, dauntless or dirty player on your lineelf. The biggest problem with dp is teams full of it, and needing doubles ends this. |
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Captain1821
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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Mar 06, 2005 - 10:02 |
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| DoubleSkulls wrote: | | DoubleSkulls wrote: | | By the way Side Step + Guard is much better than Stand Firm + Guard. There are a lot guard side step players and everyone that was one in his team, knows their value. Everyone that faced them, know that they are a pain. |
Sidestep & Guard requires at least one double, Stand Firm & Guard doesn't for strength access players. |
If you read my post again you will see that I was talking about the rules we have now when I said that. So a double is needed for both.
| DoubleSkulls wrote: | | Captain1821 wrote: |
"Once a Teams Value (TV) passes 1,500,000gps, then for every 200,000gp, the team must pay 10,000gps per match to cover the costs of running the team. If these cannot be paid using funds from the treasury, the debt is written off."
People like to play in high TR and like to see their teams growing over 200 TR. This rule is a killer for high TR teams.
If you like this kind of rules, you better play football manager at your PC or something, not Blood Bowl.
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You obviously haven't read the rule. Every league can set the breakpoint (1.5m) and the step size (200k) where they like. If you want a high end league just forget about it altogether. |
And who will be the one that will set the breakpoint? Obviously I have read the PDF that was posted by brownrob. I'll check and read if there is something more later
| DoubleSkulls wrote: | | Captain1821 wrote: |
Fouling rules suck.
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LRB fouling rules are obviously broken. The risk reward ratio is well out of alignment. |
That's your opinion. |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 06, 2005 - 12:07 |
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Please read the full Vault .pdfs - brownrob's reference sheet is only intended for those that need a reminder of current changes, not those reading up on the rules for the first time. I would suggest that any opinions you have should go in the Vault Feedback & Playtesting Forum on www.bloodbowl.com, not here - please note that you will only be listened to if you have actually played some games with these rules to back up your statements. As far as FUMBBL is concerned, all we can do is wait in anticipation of a Vault division. |
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Grumbledook
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 06, 2005 - 12:30 |
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I will set the breakpoint, I will make you leave bloodbowl, I will rule all.
Hail to the king baby! |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Mar 06, 2005 - 12:40 |
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GalakStarscraper
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 06, 2005 - 13:59 |
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Colin,
I'm finally getting to the point where I think I'll be able to start programming the Vault changes into the PBeM program ... has Ski given any thoughts at all on having a Div X version ready and when? Just curious.
Galak |
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