johnnih
Joined: Feb 26, 2012
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 Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 20:21 |
 
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| maysrill wrote: | | I'd like a bit of clarification of why Fend reduces the number of blocks an elf team takes. |
Sure, I'll share my thoughts. I have to put the disclaimer though that I am not a really experienced coach and even less so with fend teams. I also have to say up front that I am not proposing that fend is as good as dodge og block. But I believe it is underrated and less "figured out" than those stable core skills and that it yet has to find its real place in team builds.
Fend have more than one way to reduce the number of blocks you take. The most pronounced, I think, is how it reduces blocks taken on following turns.
Let's take the typical lineman or marker. He will get blocked and likely either get knocked down or pushed. In both cases (especially when the fender is from a flair team and the attacker a bash team), the attacker will want to follow up. This means that the fender will either have to stay prone or stand up and dodge if he was knocked down, or he will have to block back, dodge out or just keep marking if he wasn't. If you attempt to dodge out, you riske causing a turnover and thus will often delay this to after you have done the most important actions in your turn. Of course those important actions often has a turnover chance as well, meaning that the poor linos/markers are left on the ground or in TZs to be pounded in your opponents turn. In those scenarios, fend often means you can simple walk away without dice rolling, meaning you can utilize these linos/markers where you want them right off the bat. That means better screens, better blocks(from assists) and it means less players left in opponent's TZs to be blocked in his next turn. This effect also seems to add up over consecutive turns (we all know how bad stuff starts spiralling in BB).
Fend also helps reduce the amount of good blocks your opponent has in his current turn. In a real scrim (something elves hate to find themselves in, but mine still end up in those every now and then) blocking players often follow up to provide new assists to other targets. Fend gives you some control of these blocking schemes, turning some 2DB to 1DB if your opponent insists on having them. This might cause turnovers and deny him the rest of the blocks on that turn.
Many people seem to underestimate fend (in comparison to block and dodge) as they look at it and think that they rather be standing than left on the ground - but one tile away from the agressor. Makes sense. It is not a fair comparison, however. While dodge and block effects one side of the blocking dice each, fend effects four out of six. So the value of fend on a given dice result doesn't have to compete with the value of block or dodge at the same.
Again, I'm not saying that fend is as good as block and dodge, but it does something different. It certainly doesn't help prolong the life og the fender as much as dodge or block would, but it may sometimes protect his teammates better. I don't suspect that fend is a particularly good first pick on players that don't have either block or fend, but I am willing to experiment with it as I'm sure many others are. And I think I can make good use of it even if it is inferior to a block or dodge first pick.
Some people are commenting how succesful fend teams haven't been seen yet. That might be, but again, I believe that many are stuck in their ways and that fend still has to prove its true worth. Some good coachers are making fend teams and I have heard they had good experiences with them. I have to leave it to them to attest to this, of course.
StoneTroll's fend dwarves:
http://www.fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=684959
There another one with a name along the lines of "grey beards" but I can't find it right now.
| propuppetmaster wrote: | | These advocates of Fend are the very same people that are scared to death of CPOMB, I would guess. |
In my opinion, fend's effect on PO is only an added bonus, not its main attraction. |
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JimmyFantastic
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 21:44 |
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I think all elf teams should take fend. Do it!!! |
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Pull down the veil - actively bad for the hobby! |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Apr 16, 2012 - 22:02 |
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I can't imagine why  |
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Overhamsteren
Joined: May 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Apr 17, 2012 - 01:01 |
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Has anyone really tried using fend on a team besides dwarfs and to some extent norse?
We can link to the success of fend dwarfs but is there links to fend failures, like this whatever flavour elf team took a lot of fend, played 20+ games and their record sucked balls?
Anyway 3 pages of fend sucks! No fend rules! No fend sucks! No fend rules! etc etc. seems a bit tiresome.
Looking forwards to see how Painstate's experiment(sadly not about fend) based on actual games goes.  |
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Like a Tiger Defying the Laws of Gravity
Thanks to the BBRC for all the great work you did. |
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juck101
Joined: Nov 16, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 20, 2012 - 15:53 |
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Starting with linos and blitzers is fine by me. I have 6 sides that all followed that path and picked up a sub and witches when I felt ready. Best thing about 7 starting linemen is getting more chances for doubles- and hence guard. Make no mistake that blodge will win even situation because it won't. Saying that some blodge with some guard covered by ss tackle kick will certainly be a decent side.
I would try to aim for at least 2 guard and maybe 3 by the time you reach 2k. Runners and witches early don't help as its harder to manage this desire. Still if you get to 1750 without any guard it's time to recycle players. I like your plan to some extent but it's actually easier to recycle a normal 4 skilled blitzer than most people give credit. You only need dodge and the guy is ready at 6spps. It's just the backbone you need to keep up.
Dodge block/wrestle on 5 or 6 gives you a very solid column defence. However it won't last forever and against 3+ tacklers you should see some reasons why block Ss can be considered better. Ultimately I play blodge heavy but you get a reasonable team with just dodge on the bz and block on witches. Don't skip all stats as malmir pointed out. Try skills only but I think you will next time fancy stats are needed but need baby sitting at times |
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juck101
Joined: Nov 16, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 20, 2012 - 15:59 |
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Oh yeah I tried blodge fend one all my dark elf and it was not all that great. I think I got up to about 4 fend before I missed Ss. I would say fend is nice on positionals WITH blodge already but certainly not superior.
My rough rule is when an elf has nothing more to take then get fend. Typically this is a 4th skill for me, or 5th on blitzers. It can screw about but I don't think it's ever won me a drive yet. Ss spammed on 5 or 6 players has won me games however. Tackle kick have also won me games so fend is a late additional skill. I value fend a little as anti clawpomb but I don't recall it ever making a difference over my games |
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