TheSyron
Joined: Jun 17, 2012
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 Posted:
Mar 29, 2013 - 20:58 |
 
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Eshin & Skryre really belong in Tier 1 though. But I think that the teams are pretty balanced. |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Mar 29, 2013 - 21:09 |
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Admittedly I play high TV, so it'll take a while before the changes affect me. I'm still pretty blanket ban any game vs Skryre. Any other roster is a go go though.
Gnomes still feel pretty difficult to beat, and horrors are better than average. Strigs and Squigs are way out there, generally they lose a lot, but take half your team with them.
Mostly I see CFlings, Cheaterz and Fobos the most, but they're pretty balanced at high TV.
I'm really interested in seeing how Snotlings develop.
However as I stated before, we need some time. Asking for changes now is.......................well it isn't the right thing, if you use commonsense. Let the water settle and let whatball ingest the information the settled water gives him.
Right now teams haven't developed under the new guidelines, so it's impossible to make any compirison. |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 29, 2013 - 21:17 |
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Indeed. All of this theory is back of the envelope, finger in the air nonsense currently. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Mar 29, 2013 - 22:17 |
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Some good points made all around to be considered as time moves on and we see what shakes out. Almost all of the team (save two) fell into the 40% - 60% win range, which considering they are all rookie teams and we just had a major revamp is pretty darn good imo. I think it makes the revamp a huge success on the whole.
So what about Forest Goblins and Snotlings. Let's take a look.
Forest Goblins were dominant in the win% at 85.2%, but out of 10 teams, only 3 move on to the final KO tourney. I did say quite clearly at the outset that F'Gobs are the best team at low TV, though I'm a bit surprised they fared so well. The F'Gobs success rate drops off at 1200-1300 and up. Some things to consider about their winning percentage:
1. they are the best rookie team (restating the obvious)
2. luck is always a factor. Eshin were at 50%, but could have been easily higher if a few of the teams didn't get some horrible dicings. Obviously I didn't see all the games, but having some good rolls in Stunty is important to winning (but not fun).
3. Coaches. The XCup saw a lot of rookies in it and it showed in some games. The F'Gob coaches I would almost all consider very good experienced coaches. The average coach rating is 161.68 across 10 coaches, a very solid CR.
Jasfmpgh
Coach Rank: Super Star (166.01)
Dunenzed
Coach Rank: Super Star (162.46)
baelnic
Coach Rank: Star (155.16)
der_Feind
Coach Rank: Super Star (158.83)
Garion
Coach Rank: Legend (170.87)
easilyamused
Coach Rank: Super Star (159.88 )
gjopie
Coach Rank: Super Star (160.59)
Strider84
Coach Rank: Legend (170.26)
stej
Coach Rank: Veteran (148.17)
Mihme
Coach Rank: Super Star (164.54)
4. Inexperience in Stunty. Playing against F'Gobs for new players is tough. Not handling the Spiders right almost guarantees a loss as they contain your ball carrier and key players. Then there are the nasty Stikkas, and the hypno shaman in a pinch.
5. The very last decision I made before releasing the revamp changes was 3 or 4 Stikkas. It was really hard and in the end I felt the SW might be enough. Perhaps 3 would be better, but again, they suffer at high TV and I am willing to let things play out to see where we are really at. No need for knee-jerk reactions.
Snotlings to follow... |
Last edited by WhatBall on %b %29, %2013 - %22:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Mar 29, 2013 - 22:33 |
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Snotlings, poor, poor Snotlings. They ended winning 27.3% of their games, barely more than a quarter. They are a tricky team to play and rely quite a bit on the trolls and doing some damage with the wagons before they get sent off. Let's look at some possible factors as to why they didn't do so well:
1. They are fickle, as I said, RS trolls and SW wagons can be hit or miss.
2. dice. Again, luck can make a difference. Drrek, hale and robocoyote are all competent coaches, but had bad tournaments.
3. Coaches. I mentioned there are some good coaches for the Snotlings, but there were also as many rookies. Average CR for the 8 teams was 151.37, 10 CR lower than the F'Gob coaches on average, a big gap.
Jabberwocky
Coach Rank: Rookie (140.80)
hale
Coach Rank: Super Star (158.51)
Skolopender
Coach Rank: Rookie (141.34)
EuchreJack
Coach Rank: Veteran (147.57)
Drrek
Coach Rank: Super Star (159.32)
Nelphine
Coach Rank: Star (156.82)
robocoyote
Coach Rank: Super Star (163.06)
The_Demon
Coach Rank: Rookie (143.54)
4. Inexperience. I mentioned it, Snots are tricky to play, and tough for rookies. They can implode even on the best coaches.
5. Nelphie did manage to get one of the Snotling teams into the final 16, so they are not completely hopeless.
6. Damn they are fun to play with. 
As with F'Gobs, they do need to be monitored and may need some small tweaks to make them even more fun. Maybe slightly higher SW rolls for the pump wagons to represent them having more in waiting. Who knows for certain, but they are not as bad as the numbers indicate so far. |
Last edited by WhatBall on %b %29, %2013 - %22:%Mar; edited 1 time in total |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 29, 2013 - 22:42 |
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the other thing I would consider for the secret wagons is starting them with a bash skill, so that as a rookie team you aren't so completely hoping on trolls to do anything (which is rare) |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 29, 2013 - 22:42 |
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also, interpreting the rules to allow wagons to gain SPP when cas-ing a prone player might help too. |
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blader4411
Joined: Oct 18, 2009
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Mar 29, 2013 - 23:01 |
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How much does CR count in regards to Stunty aptitude? The teams are so diverse (and luck so much more important) that I'm not sure its a great indicator. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Mar 29, 2013 - 23:23 |
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| blader4411 wrote: | | How much does CR count in regards to Stunty aptitude? The teams are so diverse (and luck so much more important) that I'm not sure its a great indicator. |
I think it matters, especially with rookie teams. You can create a lot of your own luck. That said, things can go horribly wrong in a hurry for the best coaches. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 29, 2013 - 23:33 |
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Cr is still an indicator of your overall knowledge of the fundamentals of bloodbowl - do the safe things first, plan for failure, set yourself up to take advantage of your opponents mistake. And in stunty, those things are far more important than normal because of how spectacularly (and quickly) things can go wrong. Obviously, a CR 180 coach isn't necessarily going to translate to a 180 stunty coach, but he'll still be very strong with those fundamental rules which will be very helpful at a rookie level, like this tournament. |
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blader4411
Joined: Oct 18, 2009
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Mar 30, 2013 - 00:41 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | Admittedly I play high TV, so it'll take a while before the changes affect me. I'm still pretty blanket ban any game vs Skryre. Any other roster is a go go though.
Gnomes still feel pretty difficult to beat, and horrors are better than average. Strigs and Squigs are way out there, generally they lose a lot, but take half your team with them.
Mostly I see CFlings, Cheaterz and Fobos the most, but they're pretty balanced at high TV.
I'm really interested in seeing how Snotlings develop.
However as I stated before, we need some time. Asking for changes now is.......................well it isn't the right thing, if you use commonsense. Let the water settle and let whatball ingest the information the settled water gives him.
Right now teams haven't developed under the new guidelines, so it's impossible to make any compirison. |
Are Skryre still that strong even after the Mecha nerf? |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Mar 30, 2013 - 00:50 |
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| blader4411 wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | Admittedly I play high TV, so it'll take a while before the changes affect me. I'm still pretty blanket ban any game vs Skryre. Any other roster is a go go though.
Gnomes still feel pretty difficult to beat, and horrors are better than average. Strigs and Squigs are way out there, generally they lose a lot, but take half your team with them.
Mostly I see CFlings, Cheaterz and Fobos the most, but they're pretty balanced at high TV.
I'm really interested in seeing how Snotlings develop.
However as I stated before, we need some time. Asking for changes now is.......................well it isn't the right thing, if you use commonsense. Let the water settle and let whatball ingest the information the settled water gives him.
Right now teams haven't developed under the new guidelines, so it's impossible to make any compirison. |
Are Skryre still that strong even after the Mecha nerf? |
I think anything with mb blockle is overpowered in stunty. On the whole I tried to avoid it, and avoid taking it. |
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Nelphine
Joined: Apr 01, 2011
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Mar 30, 2013 - 01:03 |
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similar to my suggestion about snots, another thing you might do to forest gobs is make stikkas and shaman av 6. this would reduce how many of them survive to the second half, similarly to how other team killers tend to be depleted in the second half.
of course all of my comments are just comments, i'm not overly concerned |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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Mar 30, 2013 - 01:18 |
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| harvestmouse wrote: | | blader4411 wrote: | | harvestmouse wrote: | Admittedly I play high TV, so it'll take a while before the changes affect me. I'm still pretty blanket ban any game vs Skryre. Any other roster is a go go though.
Gnomes still feel pretty difficult to beat, and horrors are better than average. Strigs and Squigs are way out there, generally they lose a lot, but take half your team with them.
Mostly I see CFlings, Cheaterz and Fobos the most, but they're pretty balanced at high TV.
I'm really interested in seeing how Snotlings develop.
However as I stated before, we need some time. Asking for changes now is.......................well it isn't the right thing, if you use commonsense. Let the water settle and let whatball ingest the information the settled water gives him.
Right now teams haven't developed under the new guidelines, so it's impossible to make any compirison. |
Are Skryre still that strong even after the Mecha nerf? |
I think anything with mb blockle is overpowered in stunty. On the whole I tried to avoid it, and avoid taking it. |
They're only 3 ST and 4 MV. They're not that hard to knock down and stay away from. And now they have 1 AG so you can easily tie them up. They're good players, but not that big of a deal. |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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Mar 30, 2013 - 01:31 |
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Most of my games were horrible dicings. I went 4-0 but could have gone 0-4 about as easily. I think I played well, but I happened to have back-to-back crazy games.
And Snots were one race where I trashed them with dice BUT thought to myself "I have to give these guys a try". They seem like they have a lot of potential.
I would also be curious about the racial winning breakdown of the past few majors. Just regular randomness put together with coach's choice of race is likely to produce some "surprise" results in terms of winning percentage of races.
You know, things like the Slann winning percentage from the last FUMBBL Cup... 
In summary: Keep a firm hand on those horses. |
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