PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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 Posted:
Mar 16, 2017 - 17:10 |
 
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BUT The EM won;t be in place for a while - Big C has said so.
so my question remains: when is the new inducement fiasco starting? Will it muck up the UI? |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2017 - 17:11 |
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| PeteW wrote: | BUT The EM won;t be in place for a while - Big C has said so.
so my question remains: when is the new inducement fiasco starting? Will it muck up the UI? |
lets just hope that Christer/Kalimar introduce the new inducement system and EM at the same time.
That way until that happens we still play under the old CRP Transfer to petty cash/ Spiralling expense model. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:17 |
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anyone know who is making the rule changes, or if anyone with any sense is in communication with them? Most of the rule changes are fine so far.
The Blades on the gutter runners smells of a rule written by someone who has no knowledge of the game. Sure it makes little to no difference but its just a bit pointless and doesnt work with stab. which is a bit daft. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:23 |
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| Garion wrote: | anyone know who is making the rule changes, or if anyone with any sense is in communication with them? Most of the rule changes are fine so far.
The Blades on the gutter runners smells of a rule written by someone who has no knowledge of the game. Sure it makes little to no difference but its just a bit pointless and doesnt work with stab. which is a bit daft. |
I believe that it was their attempt at 'fluff' |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2017 - 17:24 |
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| Garion wrote: | anyone know who is making the rule changes, or if anyone with any sense is in communication with them? Most of the rule changes are fine so far.
The Blades on the gutter runners smells of a rule written by someone who has no knowledge of the game. Sure it makes little to no difference but its just a bit pointless and doesnt work with stab. which is a bit daft. |
Well, Christer and Kalimar do talk on torrent so that the community has some idea of what is going on.
BUT
The rule changes on FUMBBL are just Christer/Kalimar reading a rule book they had to pay money to get and trying to figure it all out.
There is no inner council of advisors working behind the throne dictating a "direction" of the new rules for Christer/Kalimar.
In fact some of the rule changes are so "grey" there has to be a discussion about how to code them. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:30 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
I believe that it was their attempt at 'fluff' |
Well as a old school BB player from 1st edition. Giving some fluff for the gutter blades, ok, BUT if that is the direction they want to go. There are hundreds of fluff ideas you can put in the expansion rules then. All you need to do is crack open the 2nd edition rule books and work from there and expand.
One example:
What if the new wizard rules are taken from 2ed.?
They no longer cast fireball/Lightning bolt and instead give each team magic items or spells to cast and you have them on the players. Re introduce the 'trait' that a player is a spell caster and can carry more than one spell or item?
Change up the apothecary where he makes potions that can effect KO/BH/SI or Kill results and that the Apoth actually gains SPP and cost more by how good he is at when making these potions.
THE LIST IS ENDLESS. |
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Desultory
Joined: Jun 24, 2008
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:31 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | Courtesy of fidius for the summary:
Expensive Mistakes:
If Treasury is 100,000gp or greater you must roll for Expensive Mistakes. Roll d6, apply Modifier based on current Treasury, then check the Table. Round losses up to nearest 10,000gp.
Treasury Modifier
100-190 +2
200-290 +1
300-390 +0
400-490 -1
500+ -2
Mistakes Table
1- Lose all but 2d6 x 10k gp
2 Lose half of Treasury
3 Lose d3 x 10k gp
4 Lose d3 x 10k gp
5+ Nothing happens |
Expensive mistakes kind of punishes minmaxing. If you don't spend your money on a near full roster when you have it, and then get a few unlucky player die offs/seriously injured...you get punished the next few games.
I think it's all right as a rule, but 100k is a bit too low when you might be saving for a reroll or 100k player as is the case with more expensive teams. |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:36 |
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Here is the point Iam making..I have no clue what GW is planning/working on/ already has ready to release on Expansion #2 or #3 or #9. For all I know they have a grand plan designed to make as much money as they can and will keep pushing out new rule expansions for every aspect of BB from TT one shot tournaments to league play at your local hobby shop to even a rules expansion pack for open play perpetual play.
SO
If you know what GW has planned because you work on the new BB project at GW please let us know..So we can go on even more endless speculation and discussion for the next few years.
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Sutherlands
Joined: Aug 01, 2009
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:36 |
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You can have up to 190K and still only have a 33% chance of losing 10-30k. |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:46 |
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| PainState wrote: | | Garion wrote: | anyone know who is making the rule changes, or if anyone with any sense is in communication with them? Most of the rule changes are fine so far.
The Blades on the gutter runners smells of a rule written by someone who has no knowledge of the game. Sure it makes little to no difference but its just a bit pointless and doesnt work with stab. which is a bit daft. |
Well, Christer and Kalimar do talk on torrent so that the community has some idea of what is going on.
BUT
The rule changes on FUMBBL are just Christer/Kalimar reading a rule book they had to pay money to get and trying to figure it all out.
There is no inner council of advisors working behind the throne dictating a "direction" of the new rules for Christer/Kalimar.
In fact some of the rule changes are so "grey" there has to be a discussion about how to code them. |
not really what i meant. I was asking is there someone like a BBRC helping GW make the rules changes for TT or is this all happening on GW side with no contact with the outside. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:49 |
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| Desultory wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | Courtesy of fidius for the summary:
Expensive Mistakes:
If Treasury is 100,000gp or greater you must roll for Expensive Mistakes. Roll d6, apply Modifier based on current Treasury, then check the Table. Round losses up to nearest 10,000gp.
Treasury Modifier
100-190 +2
200-290 +1
300-390 +0
400-490 -1
500+ -2
Mistakes Table
1- Lose all but 2d6 x 10k gp
2 Lose half of Treasury
3 Lose d3 x 10k gp
4 Lose d3 x 10k gp
5+ Nothing happens |
Expensive mistakes kind of punishes minmaxing. If you don't spend your money on a near full roster when you have it, and then get a few unlucky player die offs/seriously injured...you get punished the next few games.
I think it's all right as a rule, but 100k is a bit too low when you might be saving for a reroll or 100k player as is the case with more expensive teams. |
Weakest punishment ever. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:50 |
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| Garion wrote: | | PainState wrote: | | Garion wrote: | anyone know who is making the rule changes, or if anyone with any sense is in communication with them? Most of the rule changes are fine so far.
The Blades on the gutter runners smells of a rule written by someone who has no knowledge of the game. Sure it makes little to no difference but its just a bit pointless and doesnt work with stab. which is a bit daft. |
Well, Christer and Kalimar do talk on torrent so that the community has some idea of what is going on.
BUT
The rule changes on FUMBBL are just Christer/Kalimar reading a rule book they had to pay money to get and trying to figure it all out.
There is no inner council of advisors working behind the throne dictating a "direction" of the new rules for Christer/Kalimar.
In fact some of the rule changes are so "grey" there has to be a discussion about how to code them. |
not really what i meant. I was asking is there someone like a BBRC helping GW make the rules changes for TT or is this all happening on GW side with no contact with the outside. |
No matter the situation, how funny are your correspondences going to be?
"DEAR SIRS/MADAMS,
HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MINDS?!?" |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:57 |
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Garion, a couple of people have 'outed' themselves (or heavily hinted at doing so) in other areas of the BB internet. See my 'insider' comment above (and note the use of punctuation); there are very likely community members involved at some level, but the buck appears to stop resolutely with GW. I don't mean to be teasing or deliberately woolly, but there isn't a publicly available list or official statement to point you at. You have to do a bit of legwork and maths. Not that it matters anyway, as mrt has eloquently noted.  |
Last edited by Purplegoo on %b %16, %2017 - %17:%Mar; edited 2 times in total |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Mar 16, 2017 - 17:57 |
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| Garion wrote: | | not really what i meant. I was asking is there someone like a BBRC helping GW make the rules changes for TT or is this all happening on GW side with no contact with the outside. |
I have to say Iam 'jaded' about things like this. Here is what I see happening inside the basement of GW.
They have hired 5-10 interns from some trade school of gaming theory. They get very low wages because they are contractors and they are under the age of 24 and just sitting around a faculty lounge coming up with ideas. No clue of the history of BB or its complex nature from TT to hobby shop leagues to online play. They are just spit balling. Hoping that when the intership is over they get a good review and move on to another company that will pay them a real wage after they graduate.
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Mar 16, 2017 - 18:07 |
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| Desultory wrote: |
Expensive mistakes kind of punishes minmaxing. If you don't spend your money on a near full roster when you have it, and then get a few unlucky player die offs/seriously injured...you get punished the next few games.
I think it's all right as a rule, but 100k is a bit too low when you might be saving for a reroll or 100k player as is the case with more expensive teams. |
It really doesn't.
Let me describe. First of all, it's reasonable to take the +1 on the roll, since that gives you a 1/6 of losing half your treasury, so 200-290k is what you want to be sitting at after post-match.
Assuming this, that's fine for covering a positional (or two depending on race), and gives you a nice little buffer for spending in games where, of course, you're not adding to TV with inducements.
Now, when you minmax, you're likely going to cut down on any expensive positionals anyway - you want the most bang for your buck, so you're taking players that will be effective for their TV, not slow-burners. So you've less to protect, and less to replace. If you lose fodder, so what? We still have loners.
If you're minmaxing, we also assume you're not really concerned about building your team anyway. You're playing for each game as a singular entity. If your team is destroyed, but you win, so be it. From this basis, again, the lesser treasury is not a big deal, and in fact works in your benefit - should you meet a team who aren't doing this, they may well be less inclined to purchase inducements against you (even though the system actively encourages it).
Thus your low positional/reroll/no apo necro, chaos dwarves, pact, or whatever race you decide to do this with may very well find themselves playing games where they can freely slam in the 100k to grab a bribe or babes against an opponent who is not willing to do so.
Long term:
Seasonal re-drafting supports doing this too - at the end of the season you redraft the team, and you're going to be using a formula based on wins/cas/td as well as whatever smidgeon of gold you have left, but since Expensive Mistakes is there, everyone will be effectively "capped" around ~290k there unless they're feeling particularly risky. So again, spend it!
Within the re-drafting system, a player may "want to leave" and become more expensive to re-draft with each season. However, his tv cost is only increased when re-drafting. Which effectively means that if you continually re-hire someone who wants to leave, you will be decreasing your effective TV over time. Making you more TV efficient as you progress. Picture one bull, no apo cdorfs - you get to recycle any blocker who didn't get claw "for free" in a re-draft basically. And should quite easily be able to cover the cost of your bull should he have got a stat or doubles, along with a few other key players.
That, of course, assumes you actually re-draft, or want to. If you're just minmaxing for wins (and that's surely the reason to do it...) then why do you care about your team's longevity? You don't.
Which means you're quite happy to blow large chunks of treasury on inducements every game until the team finally bites it or you have a cash flow issue.
The system of EM/no petty cash/re-draft is fine for a league, it is not designed for TV-MM where teams may have absolutely no defined number of games to play and can drop in and out at any time. Minmaxing is absolutely possible in this environment and in fact the ruleset directly encourages it in my opinion.
nb. I'm also a little concerned that the seasons mechanism may potentially indirectly cut attrition over time by reducing the ceiling that Nurgle and Chaos are actually able to achieve - orcs and Dwarves will always have a head start on these teams and by introducing season re-drafts, depending on where you did it, you might simply leave them forever in the slipstream of av9 strong starts, who will continually re-draft a stronger relative position. |
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