Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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 Posted:
Sep 21, 2023 - 14:53 |
 
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| EinVoegleinImWind wrote: | You only roll once per activation but with frenzy you take the risk to move away from your thralls because of the forced follow-up.
In other words we have a new form of a frenzy trap here. |
Ah, right yea
| C0ddlefish wrote: | | Not convince about that Big Guy myself. If it doesn't have a thrall available at both stages of it's Frenzy then it's going to be a Turnover machine |
But you only need a thrall at the end of the frenzy, not at both stages..
Hmm.. yea potentially that does mean you need 2x available depending what happens. I get it now  |
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fxiii
Joined: Oct 30, 2012
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Sep 21, 2023 - 14:58 |
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New vamps are clearly OP, cant wait to run rhem in BBT !! |
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remetagross
Joined: Mar 09, 2023
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Sep 21, 2023 - 14:58 |
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Ah, yes, good catch about the frenzy trap.
Still, one totally awesome thing with this negatrait : it is the only one that guarantees that a prone big guy will not fail to stand up. Which prevent these obnoxious moments where the ogre boneheads while on the floor... not even animal savagery can ensure the rat-ogre will stand up. |
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remetagross
Joined: Mar 09, 2023
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:07 |
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Definitely. They just gained a lot of room for fine-tuning and skill mastery with these new nuances.
The MA 8 of the runners, while scary, is a tad balanced by the medium MA 6 of the thralls. I think that's a good thing. |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:13 |
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I originally missed that not biting still causes a turnover. That makes me think tier 2 probably for them. I don't know that you actually take both blitzers with BL3+.
Anyways they have a much higher starting TV scoring threat, the gaze on defense was already enough to make them master sackers, the vargeist is just another tool for that, ideally activated last on a turn so that even if fails you let it bonehead instead of bite and that ends your turn for you.
The sleeper buff here is the passer. With passing access they have a 20k leader upgrade now but more importantly, they don't actually need to move the ball carrier to apply offensive pressure. With the 8 movement catchers, you can just park the thrower safely deep on your side, let your team use its high strength, AG and gaze to get a catcher safely in scoring range then use the 2++ pass to score your points with minimal bloodlust activation from the ball carrier. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:17 |
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Taking 2 blitzers and the varg at BL3+ is gonna be hard work
It becomes BL2+ if they're blitzing or blocking, but that's not gonna cover them enough
I think it's a nerf to Gaze. You won't be able to pull a turn with 3, 4 or more gazes
You'll have max 4 [runners+throwers], more likely 2. So only 2x 'reliable' gazes per turn, which is a big decrease
Failing Bloodlust and not biting means you're Bonehead, or effectively you've Gazed yourself. You'll lose your tacklezones and therefore all your skills |
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EinVoegleinImWind
Joined: May 31, 2023
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:39 |
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Can a player score a TD without his tacklezone? I don't have the rulebook in front of me but i think it should work.
If its work then you can move a runner into the endzone at the end of one of your round and even if you fail the bloodlust you can throw a pass in the next round and score without having to roll for bloodlust (with the runner atleast). In this case you don't need a thrall at the endzone to be safe to score. |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:45 |
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No, if you fail BL then you'll need a thrall at the endzone to score
If you fail BL and attempt to score without biting, you don't score, drop the ball, and cause a turnover |
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remetagross
Joined: Mar 09, 2023
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:52 |
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Good catch for the cheap leader access.
I think Hypno Gaze is not nerfed that much. With BB2020 vamps, you rarely if ever had 6 vamps on the field anyway, more likely 4 or 5. One of them is going to do the blitz. That let you with 3 or 4 gazes.
Pretty much the same now. Plus, juggernaut means less re-roll consumption at the early stages. Which means you can save them to reroll a 3+ bloodlust to have that 5th gaze instead.
A dude on Reddit suggested running pass for the passer. It'll probably require a FAQ to clear that up, but if it works then the passer can finish his movement after the pass to ge bite a thrall somewhere. I'd find that a nice little extra use on an otherwise crappy skill. |
Last edited by remetagross on %b %21, %2023 - %15:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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EinVoegleinImWind
Joined: May 31, 2023
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:53 |
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| Sp00keh wrote: | No, if you fail BL then you'll need a thrall at the endzone to score
If you fail BL and attempt to score without biting, you don't score, drop the ball, and cause a turnover |
Do i have to activate a player to score? I am pretty sure i don't have to do that, since i can run into the endzone and then recieve a pass there and still scor in the same round and that is the key here:
The runner moves into the endzone in a previous round and waits for the pass. In that case he is not activated once he catches the ball therefor doesn't have to roll for bloodlust and i can score without a safety thrall. |
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Carthage
Joined: Mar 18, 2021
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Sep 21, 2023 - 15:57 |
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Gaze is also stronger in this edition than last edition anyways since its a straight AG check instead of AG-1. This bloodlust is just a straight buff over last edition too since the vampire doesn't leave the field. Cheap leader access, a fast movement piece, and a new "reliable" big guy all seems like buffs over last edition as well.
And last edition they grew into being a top tier team over the course of two or three seasons
Very scary.
I think only thing that could be a problem is skill growth maybe? If Blitzers only get GS primary and runners only get AG and passers only get PG then they maybe don't grow into an unbeatable team at 1600 TV?
I do want to double highlight that I think (as long as the cost is under 170k) that the Vargeist might supplant the krox as the best big guy in the game. Its 1 skill up away from being an AV10+ Regen Bloodspawn with a much much more reliable negatrait. |
Last edited by Carthage on %b %21, %2023 - %16:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Sp00keh
Joined: Dec 06, 2011
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Sep 21, 2023 - 16:00 |
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| EinVoegleinImWind wrote: | Do i have to activate a player to score? I am pretty sure i don't have to do that, since i can run into the endzone and then recieve a pass there and still scor in the same round and that is the key here:
The runner moves into the endzone in a previous round and waits for the pass. In that case he is not activated once he catches the ball therefor doesn't have to roll for bloodlust and i can score without a safety thrall. |
Hmmm my instinct was that you'd need to have your tacklezones active to be able to catch it, but I'm not sure
If you do need TZs then it's the same - you'll need to pass a BL roll at some point, whether in this turn or a previous turn |
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Java
Joined: Jan 27, 2018
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Sep 21, 2023 - 16:11 |
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Make sure that the catcher running into the endzone the turn before has sidestep
Or it will get surfed 
Whatever, the catcher will need a snack near the target scoring position, whichever turn you decide to dash forward
Endbite worse than startbite, bring back AS
Seriously though, interesting changes, time will tell. We'll have the stats to measure the effects. |
_________________
Vlad Von Carstein's door-to-door evangelist |
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eldritchfox
Joined: Mar 24, 2011
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Sep 21, 2023 - 16:12 |
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Perhaps the Vamp throwers are the answer to who would take Fumblerooski? |
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remetagross
Joined: Mar 09, 2023
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Sep 21, 2023 - 16:19 |
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@eldritchfox Yeah, thought the same. For you random skill lovers out there, rolling random Pa skills would not be such a terrible thing to do on a vamp passer. Especially if the running pass trick works.
@Carthage definitely. Though isn't the rotspawn the curently best big guy ? The one thing that hinders it just a little is the competition with the blitzers to be allowed to use the blitz. |
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