keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
|
 Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 01:50 |
 
|
@JanMatty- What does the term "Power Player" meen anyways? Can you elaberate? |
_________________
The Drunker I get, the more I spill
"Keggie is the guy with the bleach blond hair that gives answers nobody else would think of."
Jeffro |
|
JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 01:57 |
|
| keggiemckill wrote: | | @JanMatty- What does the term "Power Player" meen anyways? Can you elaberate? |
Power player is what we use in our RPG groups to indicate munchkins... those who plan and evaluate every single bonus for every single skillpick and stuff, with no regards to Roleplay.
Basically, with "Power Player" I mean someone whose only interest is to maximize winning chances in every aspect, no matter if choices must be made that don't "fit in" the situation. Just as playing only Dorfs and Orcs at BB, or creating amazons at TR100 over and over and over just to raise your TR, and stuff.
Summing up:
A Power Player is a player who wants to win at all costs... and often loses the "play" aspect of a game due to his thirst for success. |
_________________
Last edited by JanMattys on %b %23, %2006 - %02:%Jun; edited 1 time in total |
|
pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 01:57 |
|
| keggiemckill wrote: | | @JanMatty- What does the term "Power Player" meen anyways? Can you elaberate? |
I think he means 'power gamer'. [Edit: And I was right!  Turn to pac for all your JanMattys'-mind-reading needs!]
Aka munchkin.
That is, someone who picks the easy, cheesy path to victory (or uber-team building, or whatever other goal). |
|
|
JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 01:59 |
|
| pac wrote: | | keggiemckill wrote: | | @JanMatty- What does the term "Power Player" meen anyways? Can you elaberate? |
I think he means 'power gamer'.
Aka munchkin.
That is, someone who picks the easy, cheesy path to victory (or uber-team building, or whatever other goal). |
Thanks. Less words, and clearer concept.
I need to work on my english |
_________________
|
|
koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 02:14 |
|
| JanMattys wrote: | | koadah wrote: |
| sk8bcn wrote: |
If I play better than my opponent then I am a cherrypicker.
ok, if I don't want to cherrypick, I may even roll a die.
If I make a wise team developpoment I am a cherrypicker.
Non-Sense.
Really.
cherrypicking is a matter of intention, not winning chances thing.
|
You're kidding Sk8.
Yes, a matter of intention. Intention a getting an easy match. 60% win % is an easy match and has gotta be a cherry.
NOT 'if you play better' but if you don't think that you need to play anywhere near your best to get the win. |
This is nonsense to me. I coach humans. 80% of the times, past TR200. I suppose we all agree that humans at TR 200+ are underpowered...
Does this mean that every coach that challenges my Hellfishes is a cherrypicker? Come on. This is a game. The challenge is the cream of the coffee here. If you don't like challenges much, you can do whatever you want. Labeling people as "cherrypickers" in advance, based on a simple statistic or "general situation" is plain WRONG.
"Cherrypicker" is the most abused word here on Fumbbl. Often used instead of "powerplayer", sometimes used to put in a bad light excellent coaches, sometimes used to deny your opponent's superiority.
If I lose to orcs, I lose. I rarely say "eh, you're coaching orcs... you're supposed to win". This is a loser's thing. |
I can't see your point Jan.
So what if humans are underpowered. In the hands of a good coach who is a human specialist they are going to be difficult to beat. If someone thinks that your Hellfishes will be very easy to beat and challenges them for that reason then I would call that a cherry pick. Even if the coach is completely wrong and gets slaughtered (the funniest games). As Sk8 says, the intention. 
Also, just because someone is cherry picking right now does not mean that they always cherrypick or usually cherrypick.
I am not calling anyone a cherrypicker but I am sure that most coaches have done it at sometime. That is not the same as your power gamer who does it most of the time. |
_________________
[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
|
pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 02:26 |
|
Let's go back to the best definition of cherry-picking that we have, which belongs to ...
| SkiJunkie wrote: | | I would say you are a cherry picker if you constantly issue challenges that, were the team owner's reversed, you yourself would decline. |
It has a 'do unto others' kind of neatness to it.
Note the 'constantly'. It need not be considered cherry-picking if you occasionally play uneven matches. Perhaps that was the only other team on Gamefinder in range. Perhaps there was a particular coach you wanted to play (and who wanted to play you).
It also allows for every coach's perspective and takes into consideration the whole breadth of their match selection. By this definition, it is cherry-picking for a coach running Orcs to challenge a lot of elf teams, when his own elf teams never play anything bashy. But it would not be cherry-picking for a coach running Orcs to challenge elves, when his own elves are happy to take on all-comers.
Truly, it is a definition which covers everything. In fact, I think we should all stop for a moment and thank SkiJunkie not just for his wonderful Java application, but for his astute definition of cherry-picking, by which he has made all threads like this unnecessary. |
_________________
Join us in building Blood Bowl Sixth Edition.
In other news, the Hittites are back. Join us in #fumbbl.hi |
|
keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 02:28 |
|
Thanks Jan and pac, that term and explanation of "power gamer" makes much more sense than "cherry picker." Allthough to the people who dont play any other games other than BB, like myself, the term isnt very good. But I do think it is a better term than Cherry picker. I think most people would agree that this is more geared to the arguement. |
_________________
The Drunker I get, the more I spill
"Keggie is the guy with the bleach blond hair that gives answers nobody else would think of."
Jeffro |
|
Sysiphos
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 08:33 |
|
I would like to add some words to the definition of a power gamer.
Every coach can go two ways with each team... The dark path leads to a specialised team for i.e. only beating up other bashers (no need for tackle) or elf ballers only. Imho this is the true cherry picking in ranked.
The other way is to build a team which is not specialised for playing against a limited group of races. It´s the basis for a clean fight against all other races. Then every coach can play against all other teams within the TR/TS limit, where i also prefer neither to have nor to give handicaps.
I would also like to add my opinion to the discussion "I don´t put my teams in gamefinder so I am a cherry picker".
I have put my teams frequently in the gamefinder. I rarely got challenged, 95% bashers (see above). I still put my teams on gamefinder sometimes but I also started to ask coaches I wanna play for a game directly (cause i know the coach already, like his playing style, or others...).
3rd discussion point is the 60/40 match. I believe that within a TR/TS range no match-ups are cherrypicking as long both teams are build to play all races. The CR factor for calculating the possibility of a win for a match is wrong. Why should a high CR coach '(btw... where does high start?) not be allowed to play a lower CR coach? The CR is the result of some matches against a variete of different CR coaches with different races.
Regards
Sys |
|
|
Bacillen
Joined: Aug 03, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 09:19 |
|
I hadn't seen SkiJunkie's cherrypickin' definition...that one is a beauty !
Sysiphos is also speaking sense here. True BB is not powergaming or cherrypicking. It's building a team that expects to play anyone, anytime, and to hell with the consequences.
The idea that CR can reliably help you calculate your chances of winning is (a) nuts, we have TS for that and it is better and (b) any calculating at all in challenge evaluation reeks of powergaming.. |
|
|
Webbe
Joined: Aug 13, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 09:33 |
|
This discussion is pretty irrelevant. The ability to cherrypick is of course a part of the coach skill, but not the only part. To become a great coach at ranked FUMBBL you need to excell in more areas than moving pixels. If you don't like cherrypicking, then don't play in an open league system, cause they go hand in hand. |
|
|
Sysiphos
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 09:41 |
|
Playing in an open league doesn´t include cherrypicking automatically... it is called competition. See my above post for details. |
|
|
Webbe
Joined: Aug 13, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 09:45 |
|
| Sysiphos wrote: | | Playing in an open league doesn´t include cherrypicking automatically... it is called competition. See my above post for details. |
It will if one or more of the participiants does not restrict themself to not cherrypick. Cherrypicking is part of the competition, it's just a tool like anything else in the box. |
|
|
keggiemckill
Joined: Oct 07, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 09:51 |
|
@Sysiphos: I like where you went with you point of view. |
_________________
The Drunker I get, the more I spill
"Keggie is the guy with the bleach blond hair that gives answers nobody else would think of."
Jeffro |
|
tautology
Joined: Jan 30, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 10:01 |
|
I have cherry-picked 352 games, played 89 even matches, and been cherry-picked myself 110 times.
Apparently. |
|
|
Sysiphos
Joined: Feb 03, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jun 23, 2006 - 10:07 |
|
| Webbe wrote: | | Sysiphos wrote: | | Playing in an open league doesn´t include cherrypicking automatically... it is called competition. See my above post for details. |
It will if one or more of the participiants does not restrict themself to not cherrypick. Cherrypicking is part of the competition, it's just a tool like anything else in the box. |
hehe, then i still have the possibility to say 'no thanx' and decline the match after checking the team for the criteria in my post. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Blood Bowl 2024 Edit...
Search
