Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
|
 Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 00:09 |
 
|
As a general rule the box is pretty recovery-friendly. A beaten up team will automatically be paired up with another beaten up team or with a weaker opponent....
..or meet ogres due to the broken TS calculation.
Reason: bone head is usually a sign that the player is a big guy, thus a TS discount is justified. But in an Ogre team they are just regular players. The bone head roll can be rerolled, so there is no certainty that the specific discounted player will only act on average 5/6 of his turns. But only that certainty justifies the TS discount.
So please, either remove the TS discount for non big-guy negatraits or remove ogres from the box altogether. Since the race is only played by sociopath coaches or as a "fun team" by others there would be no harm done in removing them anyway, the box needs neither. |
|
|
XtremeXwing
Joined: Dec 03, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 00:13 |
|
|
Naru1981
Joined: Jan 01, 2009
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 00:20 |
|
I disagree. I think the box needs all the teams INCLUDING ogres. |
_________________
 |
|
DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 00:23 |
|
I have an Ogre team at the moment, which I find quite interesting, as long as you are not seriously expecting to win 
Ogres can be painful to play against, perhaps, but they can also be easy to beat. Anyway, you can't pick and choose the races you want, what next no Khemri? no Dwarves?
Nex tthing you know, we will only have Elves left, which is about as far away from the point of Blackbox as you can get. |
|
|
Fela
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 00:29 |
|
| DukeTyrion wrote: |
Ogres can be painful to play against, perhaps, but they can also be easy to beat. Anyway, you can't pick and choose the races you want, what next no Khemri? no Dwarves? |
As you can see above, my first (i.e. preferred) option was fixing the TS calculation abuse. We're not talking about peanuts here, depending on the number of Ogres in a team we're looking at 30 TS upwards. |
|
|
Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 00:44 |
|
| Fela wrote: | As a general rule the box is pretty recovery-friendly. A beaten up team will automatically be paired up with another beaten up team or with a weaker opponent....
..or meet ogres due to the broken TS calculation.
Reason: bone head is usually a sign that the player is a big guy, thus a TS discount is justified. But in an Ogre team they are just regular players. The bone head roll can be rerolled, so there is no certainty that the specific discounted player will only act on average 5/6 of his turns. But only that certainty justifies the TS discount.
So please, either remove the TS discount for non big-guy negatraits or remove ogres from the box altogether. Since the race is only played by sociopath coaches or as a "fun team" by others there would be no harm done in removing them anyway, the box needs neither. |
Hmmm? What's wrong with easy wins? And what's wrong with sociopaths? And "fun teams"?
You're definitely not a libertarian, that's for sure!  |
|
|
pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 00:47 |
|
ogres suck. they are easy to beat. please leave them in the box as i like easy winz |
_________________
 |
|
treborius
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 01:16 |
|
what soultoken said.
grow balls. |
|
|
svemole
Joined: Feb 09, 2006
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 01:26 |
|
While I dont think that ogres ever will be removed from the box. I do agree with the first post. Ogres are boring to play against and a Big guy team doesnt belong in a black box environment. In rank they are ok as a team you can choose to play against when you want to play something different. |
|
|
Wraith
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 01:32 |
|
So using a team reroll on a BH roll isn't a disadvantage? How about no access to general skills, except on doubles? Ogres are balanced just fine in TS... your argument is like saying "Oh noes, it's not fair, my opponent apo'd his niggled player... undead teams don't have apos... give undead apos to counter balanced this!". Teams are designed the way they are, each has pros and cons, if you cannot deal with that fact... go play in a single race only [L] or something. |
_________________
Insanity, is merely the lack of fear... to act on your deepest, darkest thoughts. |
|
Sionis
Joined: Aug 26, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 01:36 |
|
Ogres aren't that bad. Seriously, get over it.
Last I heard, the "no longer present for a year" sociopath(s) played Khemri. |
|
|
Naru1981
Joined: Jan 01, 2009
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 01:56 |
|
i had a ogre team and they ALL went bonehead in 1 turn! 6 of them. Its the risk you take. i've had bad beats by them and fun games against them. its only a game so just enjoy it. |
_________________
|
|
funnyfingers
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 01:57 |
|
I almost agreed, then Wraith brought up an excellent point. You still end up wasting a reroll for bonehead. |
|
|
treborius
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 01:59 |
|
| Fela wrote: | | ..or meet ogres due to the broken TS calculation. |
if, by broken ts, u mean too high ts as compared to what their true capability is in winning games: yes
if, by broken ts, u mean too low ts as in winning is easy with ogres based on equal ts-match-ups: no - try
proving that by playing 20 games with an ogre-team and having a >50% win-percentage.
i'll have fun watching u fail
of course some coaches do have good records with ogres, like this team, but that's either 'cause they're
excellent coaches or they rolled lots of doubles on skill rolls (can't even get block, otherwise) or both.
And it's much harder to find those winning teams for Ogres than it is for other races, for instance if u
look at the best teams for each race (highest win-percentage) which have played at least 20 games
(in the box) u get those win-percentages:
WE: 88%
Chaos: 83%
Orc: 81%
Dwarf: 81%
Fling: 73% (!)
Necro: 73%
Norse: 72%
Human: 71%
Ogres: 70%
Nurgle: 66%
...i only bothered doing this for 10 races, but u get the idea - Ogres are by no means undervalued in terms of ts
...of course, some races are played more frequently and thus have a higher chance of including a team that
made it to the top, but look at Flings - they are the rarest race in the Box and their top-team still tops Ogres
EDIT: just saw, that Vamps are even rarer today than Flings and their best team with 20 games has only 61%
so ok, there are teams that are (even) worse, but Ogres still rank below average when matched on a basis of even ts |
Last edited by treborius on %b %23, %2009 - %02:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
|
Jeffro
Joined: Jan 22, 2009
|
| Posted:
Dec 23, 2009 - 02:03 |
|
The idea of the "box" is to take what opponent you get and quit bein' a bellyachin' sissy. Learn to play 'em... Learn to beat 'em... or go cry in the corner about your broken numbers. |
|
|
|
|
| |
Inscription JBL Sais...
Search
