WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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 Posted:
Nov 20, 2012 - 18:23 |
 
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Thanks to the work of Shraaaag and his awesome scripts, I am pleased to present you with the statistics for the Necromiser. These stats encompass Stunty games from 1 October through 7 November, some 1352 games. I would say that is a huge success for Stunty. You can find Shraaaag's list here and the 'versus' table here.
These will be the basis for weighing teams and highlighting areas where rosters can be tweaked to improve Stunty even more.
Overall & win percentage
Firstly, here is the overall table I put together with some extra columns to assess the teams:
The full list is sorted by win percentage. There are two versions on here, the typical way FUMBBL handles win % (which does something funky with ties) and my second column, which essentially ignores ties. The Forest Goblins are at the top of the list, probably aided greatly by them being them best at denying scores. This is likely down to the Spiders and the Stikkas. Some thought may have to go into the number of Stikkas or SW on them. Right behind are Skryre. I thought they would be top based on their shere killing power, but people still find a way to lose even then it seems. Still, very impressive. I'm shocked Squiqs are so high up the list. I think a few really good Squig teams may have tilted the numbers a bit. Eshin round out the distinct 'top 4' group proving they aren't so bad. Bringing up the bottom are the Gnobs, who really need some love. Played Ryld's team and they truly are awful. Strigs are understandably low. I imagine some more developed Strig teams would move the win percentage up. Faeries are predictably there, along with Snotlings (who said they were OP?) and the AG2 Nurglings.
Popularity
This next list shows the teams by games played, or in other terms, popularity:
You will note that Skryre were a clear favourite, possibly for their shear killing power. I noticed a slight fall off in Skryre teams as the tourney went on and the G access on the Doomwheel was fixed. They did have 100 more games than the next team though. The Flings and Horrors also proved popular. Teams with games below 100 were the least popular and will need some review to see why. I am not including Strigoyan because, like Vampires, I believe they are a unique team that is difficult to play and therefore lower on the list. I was surprised Squigs were not lower too, but I guess the appeal of playing them outweighs the inherent difficulty they present.
Scoring
Ok, the numbers that decide the win or loss. Here are the scoring charts:
 
Ok, looking at the TDs for, we see the SKinks are the best at getting the ball into the end zone. Makes sense with their speed, which is offset by fragility. Right behind we have the Squigs. Again, a bit surprising, but they do have a ST4 ball carrier. Not surprising are the Forest Goblins and Eshin. Eshin probably should be a little better at scoring. And rounding out the top 5 are the Skryre, who don't need to score a lot to be very effective (see casualties below). At the bottom end we Nurglings (terrible AG), Snotlings and Strigs.
From a defensive perspective, the best team was the Forest Goblins with tent/shadow Spiders and pointy sticks. They had a noticeably better against record than any other team. They are very effective at low TV especially. The Eshin were effective too, and surprise, surprise, Skryre. Guess defence is easy when you kill all mens. Faeries were far and away the worst despite their Strip Ball players, followed by the lowly Gnoblars and Skinks.
Casualties
Ok, the list all Stunty fans are waiting for, the death chit:
 
Well, coming out on top, to no surprise are Skryre. They averaged an unholy 5.15, almost a full casualty clear of the next best killers. Really, quite obscene considering the rest of the teams strengths on top of that. Behind them were C'Flings and Snotlings just north of 4 casualties per game. Still very solid numbers, but countered by their weaknesses, which are confirmed in the rest of the stats. At the bottom the Eshin and Skink are the stand out kid-gloves teams. More fuel for Eshin to get some speed back? Time will tell. The rest of the 10 teams were nicely spread over a range of only a single casualty.
On the other side we see the Gnomes proving their AV8/Thick Skull combo to be very effective with noticeably the best against average. Teams 2 through 12 fit a nice range spread of 1 casualty again. At the bottom we see the Pygmies and especially the Eshin taking it on the chin.
Hope you found this useful, I'm eager to hear general thoughts and ideas for improvements. Remember, this is more of a holistic overview, we will talk very specific details with each team. So please don't get into too granular of detail with changes in this thread. |
Last edited by WhatBall on %b %19, %2013 - %16:%Feb; edited 1 time in total |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:34 |
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I think these are useful, certainly interesting.
I guess the first point is what are we aiming for? Are we aiming for similar target win percentages to the regular team's tier setup? i.e. tier 1 45-55%, tier 2 35-45%, tier 3 25-35%? If so, the top 4 teams are too good at the moment, although that would probably best be fixed by boosting some of the weaker teams, rather than nerfing the good ones.
I'm also slightly relieved to see it's not just me that struggles with Nurglings, which I'd previously thought was just due to me not being very good... |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:42 |
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I have no interest in tiers, but as a general rule, I think the range for win percentage should be 40-60%. I want to drop the top teams down a bit and bring up the bottom teams. A range of 20% is plenty for variation. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:49 |
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Here is a data question:
-Does CAS reflect the damage caused by weapons?
__Synn |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:52 |
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OK, cool. So then I guess my first suggestion is: Nurglings want something to improve ball-handling. Whether that's giving the Putrifier +AG, or Extra Arms as well as/instead of Big Hand, or Sure Hands, or something else entirely, they really need it. It's so easy to spend 3 or 4 turns failing to pick up the ball. |
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Dusk
Joined: Aug 18, 2012
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:53 |
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Really Stupid for Mechavermin and the slaves finally become more than speed bumps for protecting the mechs from fouls. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:54 |
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@Synn: Yes, it should. Just as it reflects fouling casualties. If you look at a game report it may show 3/1/2, but you only may have SPP for 2 or 3 of those casualties if the rest were SWs or fouls. Forest Goblins, for example, would not be up so high if stab casualties were not represented. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:57 |
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That's what I figured.
Another data question...
I can see the # of games per race, but would it be helpful in knowing the number of teams per race? That way we could see whether all those Gnoblar games are the result of 20 people playing two or so games and thinking "god these guys suck ass".
__Synn |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Nov 20, 2012 - 20:59 |
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The "uncool" teams: Eshin, Skinks, Faeries, Gnoblars, and Pygmies.
What would you do to make them more attractive to play? Are they missing a positional that fluff dictates should be there? Is it they are just bad teams to win with? I like all the icons for these ones, can't believe it is visual disapproval. |
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WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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Nov 20, 2012 - 21:05 |
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| Synn wrote: | Another data question...
I can see the # of games per race, but would it be helpful in knowing the number of teams per race? That way we could see whether all those Gnoblar games are the result of 20 people playing two or so games and thinking "god these guys suck ass". |
A very valid point. I mentioned in discussing the Squig win percentage seeming artificially high. I checked the record for myself and Cameronhawkins and combined we have a record of 30/10/4 with our Squigs. If you remove our two teams the Squig Herder win percentage drops from 60% to 49%.
I will definitely have to look into how many teams constitute each breakdown, especially for the teams with fewer games. |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Nov 20, 2012 - 21:08 |
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The Pygmies not having side views is a bit of a shame. Faeries; well, they just aren't a BB/WFB race, for me. Gnoblars do have some of the nicest icons; I'd be tempted by them, if it wasn't for my self-imposed Chaotic teams only limitation.
Also, I think the fact we just had a new client probably tilted popularity towards those races that weren't working properly previously: Horrors, Gnomes, & Cheaters, which are 3 of the top 5 most popular teams.
And I've said it before, I'll probably say it again: Mechavermin should not be AG3. They're clanking, hissing, steam-, clockwork- and warpstone-powered automatons, it just makes no sense. |
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Synn
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
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Nov 20, 2012 - 21:49 |
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Thoughts on Pygmies (they move towards the slann side of things):
Pygmies
0 - 16: __Pygmy_
5 2 3 7 dodge, right stuff, leap, very long legs
Skill Access: A
0 - 2: Jungle Shaman
5 2 3 7 dodge, stunty, hypnotic gaze, throw team mate, disturbing presence
Skill Access: GAP
0 - 2: Head Hunters
5 2 3 7 dodge, right stuff, leap, very long legs, horns, claw
Skill Access: GAS
0 - 2: Kroxigor
6 5 1 9 bonehead, loner, mighty blow, prehensile tail, thick skull
Skill Access: S
---
Fairies (Rename to Forest Spirits so they can fit in fluffwise):
Forest Spirits
To play a proper game of Bloodbowl, one must find a flat piece of land with a minimum of rocks, temples, or graves. Sometimes, the best way to find a suitable piece of land, is to carve it from the land. Trees are chopped, grasses are trampled, rivers are diverted for irrigation... Bloodbowl is not a particularly 'green' industry.
Such construction practices eventually found their way to the edge of Athel Loren. Glades were disturbed... rocks were overturned... trees were cut down.
Some of the fields that were created from woodland turned against their occupiers in the middle matches. Trees would randomly sprout from the midfield. Players and coaches would find themselves paralyzed. Some even spoke of howling balls of light dancing throughout the stands. Roaming Bloodbowl squads recognized these open fields as trouble and would avoid playing on their surface.
Several shady Stunty Leeg promoters took notice of these nice pitches scattered throughout the wooded realm. As they say in the shadows, "if there's grass on the field......"
0 - 16: Glade Sprites
6 1 2 6 dodge, two heads, extra arms, stunty, right stuff, hypnotic gaze
Skill Access: A
0 - 4: River Sprites
7 1 3 6 dodge, right stuff, stunty, hypnotic gaze, strip ball
Skill Access: GA
0 - 2: Wisps
6 1 4 5 dodge, ball and chain, guard, disturbing presence, side step, fend, no hands, hypno gaze, sure feet
Skill Access: A
0 - 3: Treemen
2 6 1 10
stand firm, throw team-mate, mighty blow, thick skull, take root
Skill Access: S
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Gnoblars (Rename to Ogre Raiders because dammit that's what they should be all about!):
Ogre Raiders
0 - 16: Gnoblars
Skill Access: A
6 1 3 7 dodge, right stuff, stunty
0 - 2: Bullet Gnoblars
4 1 3 9
Skill Access: A
dodge, right stuff, stunty, thick skull
0 - 2: Gnoblar Trappers
5 2 3 7 dodge, stunty, prehensile tail
Skill Access: GAS
NOTE, Ogre Raiding Teams travel in packs of 3. They may never have more than 3 Ogres in total*
0 - 3: Ogre Irongut
4 5 1 10 bonehead, mighty blow, thick skull, stand firm, throw team mate, always hungry
Skill Access: S
0 - 1: Ogre Maneater
5 5 2 9 bonehead, thick skull, mighty blow, throw team mate, always hungry
Skill Access: GS
0 - 3: Ogre Gorgor
5 5 1 8 frenzy, wild animal, claws, thick skull, throw team mate, always hungry
Skill Access: S
---
As for Skinks and Eshin.... you have a bit of a dilemma.
How do Skinks fit in compared to buffed Fairies and Eshin?
How do Eshin fit in as the less stabby Forest Goblins?
Hard decisions there!
__Synn |
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xnoelx
Joined: Jun 05, 2012
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Nov 20, 2012 - 21:54 |
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Wait, Pygmies with Very Long Legs? So... regular sized dudes then? |
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Corvidius
Joined: Feb 15, 2011
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Nov 20, 2012 - 21:56 |
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| WhatBall wrote: | The "uncool" teams: Eshin, Skinks, Faeries, Gnoblars, and Pygmies.
What would you do to make them more attractive to play? Are they missing a positional that fluff dictates should be there? Is it they are just bad teams to win with? I like all the icons for these ones, can't believe it is visual disapproval. |
Eshin: Lack of Big Guy, No St3, like a weaker Forest Goblin team as it only has 2 stab players and 2 Shadowers. Only 1 G access player
Solution: 0-2 Assassins or 0-4 Stalkers or at Stab to stalkers
Skink: No Big guy, No St 3, only 2 G access players who have no hands, expensive.
Solution: Add Kroxigor or discount cost
Faeries: St1, Slow big guys
Solution: St2 Leprechauns and/or Mv 3 Trees
Gnoblar: St1, Expensive positionals and rerolls
Solution: Discount rerolls and player cost.
Pygmy: No idea tbh why they aren't more popular,
Solution: Not a clue |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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Nov 20, 2012 - 22:12 |
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| WhatBall wrote: | The "uncool" teams: Eshin, Skinks, Faeries, Gnoblars, and Pygmies.
What would you do to make them more attractive to play? Are they missing a positional that fluff dictates should be there? Is it they are just bad teams to win with? I like all the icons for these ones, can't believe it is visual disapproval. |
What are they missing? Bombs, Balls, and Chainsaws! I'm of the opinion that EVERY stunty team needs at least some kind of secret weapon on the roster! Note that the top five teams all have bombs and/or chainsaws and Forest Goblins have lots of stabbers. I don't think that's coincidence. |
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