Siokawta
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
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 Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 06:00 |
 
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Personally I just like consistancy in my players... I feel like if I've got a player out there I cant use to do anything important, I might as well be playing with 1 less man. Just my style I guess. |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 06:16 |
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| Dooby wrote: | | Treemen = pro pro pro (Take root is the worst neg trait in the game right now and anything to prevent it has to be taken - Yes, I even think its worse than OFAB). I would take Pro on my flings trees should I get a double. Second double would be block for me. |
No way. Old take root where he missed the first half was worse.
Trees are roadblocks. str 6 stand firm. Who cares if they are stuck there? With ma 2 they arent gonna chase down a whole lot anyway.
Treemen are the best big guy for agility teams, its why wood elves are so damn good; conversely its why rat ogres for skaven are so damn crap, its because they need a roadblock with armour and they dont get it.
Only in stunty Would I not take block, favouring pass instead. |
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ElGuappo
Joined: Apr 28, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 06:32 |
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I always think of Big Guys as being split into 3 groups, im not sure wy but i think of it like this....
Rat Ogre and Mino
Might be worth taking pro if you have a mino/RO that you like to blitz with, this could be cos he already has break tackle or +St (or both), or cos you are currently short of blitzer type players on your team (unlikely), or you just like doing it.
Treeman
I think block and pro are just as useful, Britnoth has pointed out that you want the Tree as a roadblock primarily, once he is stuck he cannot do that for the rest of the drive.
Troll/Ogre/Kroxigor
NEVER worth taking Pro over block, if you are blitzing with a Troll then you basically are one in real life. If you are doing anything other than moving or doing fun blocks with these guys then you are playing badly.
Obviously serious stat raises on players might change this, an AG4 ogre could probably get a lot of mileage out of pro...... |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 07:04 |
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| ElGuappo wrote: | | If you are doing anything other than moving or doing fun blocks with these guys then you are playing badly. |
Or you are making a desperate play  |
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ElGuappo
Joined: Apr 28, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 07:06 |
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| Quote: |
ElGuappo wrote:
If you are doing anything other than moving or doing fun blocks with these guys then you are playing badly.
Or you are making a desperate play
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Yup, i should've put things have gone kinda wrong already or you are playing badly |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 08:40 |
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| ElGuappo wrote: | Kroxigor
NEVER worth taking Pro over block... If you are doing anything other than moving ... then you are playing badly.
...Obviously serious stat raises on players might change this, an AG4 ogre could probably get a lot of mileage out of pro...... |
That's why a Kroxi might want to have Pro (especially if he already has Break Tackle): Then he can support his fast running team in the offense. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 10:48 |
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some stats:
Moving at 2+ (hit with WA, bone head, Really stupid with assist)
block: 5/6=83.3%
pro: 11/12=91.6%
moving at 4+ (normal move with WA, RS without assist)
block:3/6=50%
pro:5/8=62.5%
not falling when hitting at 2 dices (I do consider that you don't use pro if you don't fall, thus I keep push if I have one):
block: 35/36=97.2%
pro: 76/81=93.8%
not falling beeing hit at 2 dices:
block: 4/9=44.4% (whatever the opponent)
pro: 1/4=25% (if block) and 44.4% (if the opponent hasn't block and don't want to fall)
not falling at 1 die:
block: 1/3=33.3%
pro: 1/2=50% (the opponent has no choice, whether he has block or not)
knocking down at 2 dices,
block: 5/9=55.6% (vs a block opponent) and 3/4=75% vs a non block opponent.
pro: the safe way: 5/9+5/162=58.7% falling: 6.2%
pro: the risky way -just a push, I reroll!!!- : 5/9+20/162= 67.9%. falling: 8%
ok now make your own mind.
IMO, the offensive part is pretty the same, the moves goes slightely in favour of pro but the defensive part is just too much better for block! almost 20% less chances to fall at 2dices and 17% at 1 die.
That makes my choice |
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Voorn
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 20:35 |
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Yes, block has won it hands down without a doubt. Of course, pro is a decent possible second choice and even then depending upon the team not always even a top second choice if mutations are allowed or if it is a treeman. |
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Gaming account self closed due to attempts to hack it and a lack of interest to play.
Immitated in chat by another member "S**n" |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 20:47 |
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I gotta ask, Voorn..... What is with your new tagline? Is there any real point? |
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Voorn
Joined: Nov 23, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 20:49 |
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| Macavity wrote: | | I gotta ask, Voorn..... What is with your new tagline? Is there any real point? |
Answer via pm. |
_________________
Holder of the official Fumbbl titles of
1. EVIL INC 2. Evil Personified 3. Worst Coach
Gaming account self closed due to attempts to hack it and a lack of interest to play.
Immitated in chat by another member "S**n" |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 21:31 |
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| Dooby wrote: | | Treemen = pro pro pro (Take root is the worst neg trait in the game right now and anything to prevent it has to be taken - Yes, I even think its worse than OFAB). I would take Pro on my flings trees should I get a double. Second double would be block for me. |
Fling Tree, take Pro or even Pass, that's good and TTM rocks
Wood Elf Tree, it's here to shoack damage, because Wood Elves are so frail and expensive, so I'll go for Block (st6+Block is hard to knock down) (and if you are concerned with fouls, better if your opponent fouls the Tree instead of the WD or Catchers)
For the others, the actions I want to perform more often are usually blocks (not even blitzes) and Block is better for that (if you can't afford to loose the Tackle zone, don't use the Big Guy)... In a desperate situation, when I have to blitz with a big guy I'll blame mishelf for not taking Pro or Tackle or... |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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| Posted:
May 02, 2006 - 21:52 |
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Even for my 4vs4 trolls I've chosen block before pro. Pro fails most of the time anyway. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 03, 2006 - 10:07 |
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| nin wrote: | | Dooby wrote: | | Treemen = pro pro pro (Take root is the worst neg trait in the game right now and anything to prevent it has to be taken - Yes, I even think its worse than OFAB). I would take Pro on my flings trees should I get a double. Second double would be block for me. |
Fling Tree, take Pro or even Pass, that's good and TTM rocks
Wood Elf Tree, it's here to shoack damage, because Wood Elves are so frail and expensive, so I'll go for Block (st6+Block is hard to knock down) (and if you are concerned with fouls, better if your opponent fouls the Tree instead of the WD or Catchers)
For the others, the actions I want to perform more often are usually blocks (not even blitzes) and Block is better for that (if you can't afford to loose the Tackle zone, don't use the Big Guy)... In a desperate situation, when I have to blitz with a big guy I'll blame mishelf for not taking Pro or Tackle or... |
mmmm. not that obvious.
Who is follish enough to try to knock down a tree. I just tend to avoid him until he takes root. And since falling by block with pro isn't so much superior than with block, the choice isn't that clear. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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| Posted:
May 04, 2006 - 01:54 |
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well, then go for the second paragraph, with Wood Elves I also prefer to block with the tree (instead of other actions, ballhanding is not a tree specialty and he is not usually in range for blitzes or anithing else)... ok, may be move actions are more usual (as smart people tend to avoid trees or any st6 MB monster) but with mv2 I'll try not to center the game on their movility.
when you block (2d, no Block) it's 1/9 of meeting the ground, 1/36 with Block, about double that with Pro. when you are the blocked one, without Block, 2d it's 3/4. with it, 5/9. But those numbers don't really mean too much.
I'm not going to ask my tree to save the day, that's for the WD (tree frigtens me, st6 MB pixels) I just want him to be there, intimidating (if posible) and may be, to do some blocks (if posible also)
...of course that's a personal oppinion, I'm almost sure that I'm not rigth, but that's what I do and the arguments behind my dubious reasoning.  |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
May 04, 2006 - 09:19 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | some stats:
Moving at 2+ (hit with WA, bone head, Really stupid with assist)
block: 5/6=83.3%
pro: 11/12=91.6%
not falling when hitting at 2 dices (I do consider that you don't use pro if you don't fall, thus I keep push if I have one):
block: 35/36=97.2%
pro: 76/81=93.8%
not falling beeing hit at 2 dices:
block: 4/9=44.4% (whatever the opponent)
pro: 1/4=25% (if block) and 44.4% (if the opponent hasn't block and don't want to fall)
knocking down at 2 dices,
block: 5/9=55.6% (vs a block opponent) and 3/4=75% vs a non block opponent.
pro: the safe way: 5/9+5/162=58.7% falling: 6.2%
pro: the risky way -just a push, I reroll!!!- : 5/9+20/162= 67.9%. falling: 8%
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I just want to remember those stats:
not falling down with pro 93.8% vs block 97.2% and at 3 dices it's a 97.9% vs 99.6%.
IMO not a so big difference.
Here: that's what should decide your choice:
Moving at 2+ (hit with WA, bone head, Really stupid with assist)
block: 5/6=83.3%
pro: 11/12=91.6%
not falling beeing hit at 2 dices:
block: 4/9=44.4% (whatever the opponent)
pro: 1/4=25% (if block) and 44.4% (if the opponent hasn't block and don't want to fall)
Will someone hit you at 2 dices or not? is the 8% chances more not to root or to stand up it worth? I consider it beeing really debatable.(I don't mean I would pick pro but well, flings for exemple should take pro, I guess). |
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