FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

pompom

Joined: Feb 21, 2007

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 14:13

using zara as an emample - stakes.

On ranked how would you ever get her to use this advantage unless you hire after the match up... hello undead coach - don't mind her.

in a fluff sense i think hireing a star/freebooter is entirely in the ethos of the game.

Were_M_Eye

Joined: Sep 24, 2007

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 14:16

Why don't we just introduce a cherry picking button, for those times you whant 20-30 ts advantage?

JanMattys

Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 14:19

this:

Woodstock wrote:

It destroys the whole purpose of blackbox. Not knowing who you play and not being able to change your roster according to it.
Why even bother playing B if the thing you really want is just a SMACK or Minor in R?

and this:

Synn wrote:

Big issue is that for fairness sake, once humies see their opponent and gets to decide who to hire, you have to make that same option available to the opponent.

Depth of stars is not just the perk of humies. Orcs and Chaos are pretty well stacked there too.

__Synn

cover my view on the matter

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Tathar

Joined: Sep 29, 2006

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 14:27

Just wait for FFB and the move to the TV system. Then it will be easily implementable from a game perspective. Not so sure about the technical aspect but I don't think it'd be that hard.

CircularLogic

Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 14:51

The box will really struggle with the TV system. Either TS gets scrapped and just TV is used OR somehow the relation between TV and TS needs to be taken into account into the formula OR inducements will be disabled in the box.

Tathar

Joined: Sep 29, 2006

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 15:14

CircularLogic wrote:

The box will really struggle with the TV system. Either TS gets scrapped and just TV is used OR somehow the relation between TV and TS needs to be taken into account into the formula OR inducements will be disabled in the box.

I just figured TV would replace both TR and TS ...

Edit:

With the scheduler matching base TV + a nominated match fund. Then it would work as LRB 5.

I think this works. I will look at LRB 5 set up rules again.

Edit 2:

LRB 5 pre-match sequence is:

1. Roll on Weather table
2. Transfer Gold from Treasury to Petty Cash
3. Take Inducements

So I imagine a Black Box version would be:

1. Enter scheduler & nominate match fund.
2. Get scheduled based on TV + nominated match fund.
3. Roll on weather table.
4. Transfer additional gold from Treasury to boost nominated match fund.
5. Take inducements.

CircularLogic

Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 17:40

What sense would it make to nominate a match fund?

Tathar

Joined: Sep 29, 2006

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 19:42

CircularLogic wrote:

What sense would it make to nominate a match fund?

I guess thinking about it again, that just adds an uncessary stage (since you already have inducements). I was trying to reconcile my LRB 4 work around and the LRB 5 system and ened up with that unnecessary step.

So basically all it needs is the LRB 5 inducement system and the switch to using a TV scheduler.

-------------------------------------------

Though another thought occurs to me ...

Not having the extra layer means that there is a reasonable chance that you'll both probably be hiring stars post match-up due to the inducement system.

Having the extra nominate fund process means (if by default most teams nominate 0) that if you nominate an amount to hire a star, you'll likely be playing against a naturally stronger team. But you will probably be the only one who is able to hire a star (assuming the other team is of similar modified TV and has not nominated funds and does not have enough additional funds in their treasury to add to match funds in stage 4).

Whether that difference is desirable is debatable though.

asharak

Joined: Nov 27, 2007

Posted: Mar 22, 2010 - 23:02

Ehhh. But then I plan on hiring a star, have enough money etc.... and choose to nominate 0. In stage 4 i add the funds. Why would I nominate in the first place when it gets me a harder matchup?

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Rijssiej

Joined: Jan 04, 2005

Posted: Mar 23, 2010 - 13:53

Maybe I just don't understand LRB5 but why would you ever want to transfer your gold from treasury to petty cash?

When you have lower TV all the gold you transfer is gold you won't get for free to buy inducements.
And when you have higher TV all the gold you transfer is gold that the opponent also gets for free to buy inducements.

DukeTyrion

Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Posted: Mar 23, 2010 - 14:00

Rijssiej wrote:

Maybe I just don't understand LRB5 but why would you ever want to transfer your gold from treasury to petty cash?

When you have lower TV all the gold you transfer is gold you won't get for free to buy inducements.
And when you have higher TV all the gold you transfer is gold that the opponent also gets for free to buy inducements.

There are some circumstances when it can help.

For Instance, I am a Goblin team with a chainsaw and a TV of 1360 and I enter a game against an Orc team with a TV of 1420 (Giving me 60k worth of inducements).

I decide to put 100k cash towards the game, allowing me to buy a Ref bribe (so I can either foul, or ensure the chainsaw is not sent off), which takes my TV to 1460, now giving my opponent 40k of inducements (which is not enough to buy anything).

Koigokoro

Joined: Sep 29, 2005

Posted: Mar 23, 2010 - 14:58

CircularLogic wrote:

The box will really struggle with the TV system. Either TS gets scrapped and just TV is used OR somehow the relation between TV and TS needs to be taken into account into the formula OR inducements will be disabled in the box.

Or there could be a cap for TV difference before used cash.

PainState

Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Posted: Mar 23, 2010 - 16:15

The transfer gold to petty cash is a very situational thing. The vast majority of coaches will not/never transfer gold.

You transfer gold before the final TV is calculated.

Example it is a 1.25 team vs a 1.0 team. So the underdog is getting 250,000 gold in inducements. AND both teams have 100,000 gold in treasury.

The favorite will only transfer to purchase an inducment IF he feels he needs something bad, like and extra apothecary. IF he does this he is giving the underdog equal value for his purchase, so an extra 100,000 gold.

The underdog will never spend gold because it makes no sense. You are getting 250,000 gold, FREE, to purchase. BUT if you transfer gold that will raise you TV and you lose the proportion of FREE gold for your own gold. Which of course makes no sense to do.
So with the above example the Favorite transfers 100,000 gold to get an apoth. You could counter by transfering 100,000 gold to also get an apoth. and still get an extra "free" 250,000 for other things. OR dont transfer as the underdog and get 350,000 "free" gold. I think it is obvious what to do.

The underdog will allways get the TV diffrence + the value of inducements purchased by the favorite. The underdog CANNOT increase the value of inducemnts he will get INLESS he has a large cash on hand and forgoes the free gold and purchases everything straight up. Which of course might make the underdog the favorite after the transfer. This scenario will probally only ever be scene in a tournament format.

SO when it comes to the BOX

There would have to be a step before you enter the scheduler to check how much gold you are transfering so that your TV can get set and then it sets up the matches.

In the end as the above example hopefully shows. There is allmost no scenario were it is in your best intrest to transfer gold for a one off box game. SO in the end I dont see it as a big deal for the ho hum day to day games in the box.

Now you might say well I want an extra apoth for my next match. And the scheduler makes an even TV match up. Well you just gave your opponeet a free 100,000 gold to spend so in the end it is still and even match. This scenario will only show up IF there is no pre transfer of funds and the funds are transfered after the match is set up by the scheduler.

And yes the Box shceduler will have to be re worked with TV in mind instead of TS. Inless Christer decides that TS still has some merits over TV and decides to keep this unique Fumbbl concept.

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Timlagor

Joined: Feb 13, 2009

Posted: Mar 30, 2010 - 21:04

I don't know LRB5 rules but you seem to have a gaping hole in yoru argument Painstate:

I may well think that 100k worth of inducements to me as the favourite is worth more than an extra 100k to my opponent: presumably a particular inducement will help me a lot.

A similar thing can apply if you are only slightly behind and badly want a particular (more expensive) inducement (I'm assuming from various comments that you get to choose which inducements you get).
..and I'm inferring that this does reduce the free cash you get rather than giving corresponding free cash to your opponent.

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Dakkon12

Joined: Feb 06, 2009

Posted: Mar 30, 2010 - 21:17

Woodstock wrote:

It destroys the whole purpose of blackbox. Not knowing who you play and not being able to change your roster according to it.
Why even bother playing B if the thing you really want is just a SMACK or Minor in R?

I will agree with Woodstock on this one. This idea pretty much kills the purpose of the Black Box mate. But you will find all those options in a Smack...

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