Buttercup
Joined: Sep 24, 2003
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 Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 19:58 |
 
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The way the client does it now, pass and/or hand off is selected on top of a move action. Shouldn't a pass action work like a blitz? I.e. if you get a bonehead or if you decide not to pass you lose the ability to pass for that turn?
LRB quotes:
| Quote: | PLAYER ACTIONS (p. 
In a team turn, a coach may perform one of the
following actions with each of the players in his team.
When all of the players in a team have performed an
action then the team turn ends and the opposing coach
is allowed to take a turn.
You must declare which action a player is going to take
before carrying out the action. For example, you might
say, “This player is going to take a block action.”
Players perform actions one at a time. In other
words, the coach may perform an action with one
player, then perform an action with another player,
and so on. This carries on until all of the players have
performed an action, or the coach does not want to
perform an action with any more players. Note that a
player must finish his action before another player
can take one. Each player may only perform one
action per team turn. Only one player may take a
Blitz or Pass action per team turn.
Pass: The player may move a number of squares equal
to his MA. At the end of the move the player must pass
the ball.
HANDING-OFF THE BALL
A hand-off is a type of very Short pass, where the ball is
simply handed to a player that is in an adjacent square.
Handing off the ball is an action, like Move, Blitz, Pass,
etc. You may only declare one hand-off action per turn.
The hand-off is made after the player’s move, just like a
pass. The ball may not be handed off more than once
per team turn, and the ball may not be handed off in the
opponent’s turn.
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Or is this just something that the client doesn't handle properly?
Examples where this would matter are: TTM plays, players deciding halfway through their move that passing is not a good idea, they should handoff instead etc.
Buttercup |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:06 |
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Umm.. you do lose yer pass action if u bonehead on ttm |
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Severian
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:06 |
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In the case of a failed bonehead who has the ball it's inconsequencial. The person with the ball fails their bonehead and you've ended their turn...you can't pass or hand off the ball using a player who doesn't have the ball.
But beyond this (or let's say someone ELSE on your team ends up with the ball later that same turn through...some turn of fate) I've always played that you have the option to say, "Okay he's done moving and I think I'd like to pass the ball now."
I don't think it's necessary to make a coach commit to a pass or handoff action at the BEGINNING of a player's turn. Plus at this point we'd all have to relearn the new system which would result in much cursing and swearing as you discover DOH! I clicked move and not pass, now he's stuck in the backfield and can't get rid of the ball!! |
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MixX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:11 |
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all the same, the "declare" system IS the way the rules are written.. a little leeway is all fine and good in a tabletop game, but on a computer, it should stick to the rules. That being said, the situations where this makes a difference are very few, and I see no reason to change it at the moment. |
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Buttercup
Joined: Sep 24, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:18 |
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Just on the TTM issue - as a halfling, assuming I had two ogres on my team, I would move one to see if it boneheaded, if it did, I could move the second one and TTM with him - gives you a chance to see if it failed or not. Further, if the move boneheaded you can always do a pass with the guy with the ball (which you shouldn't be able to do).
Buttercup |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:33 |
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i can't see why it has to change, the only person who can pass the ball is the player with the ball, and considering that he can move and pass why worry whether you have clicked pass or not? same with hand off |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:39 |
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Freak - it makes a HUGE diff on throw teamate.
Situation - i have 2 trolls at next to a halfing and wish to throw the little bugger downfield for a TD.
Tabletop - I declare pass, I roll for really stupid, I roll a 1 (of course). My pas action is used.
Java Client - I click troll #1, I roll for really stupid, I roll a 1 (of course). I click on troll #2, roll a 4 for really stupid and toss the guy for a TD (roll6,5) and win.
Buttercup has an excellent point, just dont know if it is realistic to program. |
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Severian
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:42 |
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Cool buttercup, I can see what you're saying and can also appreciate the "pursuit of truth" involved with this discussion, but it's my opinion that it's just too rules-nazi to worry about. If there's a slight loophole and you can pass with whichever Troll doesn't fail his bonehead (or neither and pass the ball), more power to you. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:47 |
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| Mully wrote: | | Freak - it makes a HUGE diff on throw teamate. |
It makes a difference on throw teamate, but not on most teams.
First off, it really only comes up on teams that have two TTM big guys, and even then only those with ttm really stupid big guys, and since ogres are no longer on these teams, that leaves only the goblin team where this TTM difference can occur. Even then, assuming proper assist for really stupid, which is the rule rather than the exception, it will only affect one TTM attempt in 6.
Yes, it's a difference, but it's certainly not a huge difference, certainly not enough for Skijunkie to completely recode the way the client handles pass and handoff actions, at least until there is absolutly nothing better to do on the client. |
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Khaan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:51 |
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This issue must be fixed. Overpowered goblins are taking over all divisions. HLEP!
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Severian
Joined: Dec 12, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 20:55 |
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I picture a troll attempting to pass...*gasp* he forgot what he was doing Jim!! Wait! The other troll on the team will now attempt to throw Bifur Hobblefoot into the endzone, but wait! The ref is arguing that they already used their pass action!! Amazing! I didn't see a pass, did you Jim? |
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Flaymin
Joined: Jan 09, 2004
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 21:02 |
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Lol  |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 21:03 |
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| Quote: |
Yes, it's a difference, but it's certainly not a huge difference, certainly not enough for Skijunkie to completely recode the way the client handles pass and handoff actions, at least until there is absolutly nothing better to do on the client.
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Oh I agree completely |
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Frankenstein
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 22:38 |
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| Mr-Klipp wrote: | | Mully wrote: | | Freak - it makes a HUGE diff on throw teamate. |
It makes a difference on throw teamate, but not on most teams.
First off, it really only comes up on teams that have two TTM big guys, and even then only those with ttm really stupid big guys, and since ogres are no longer on these teams, that leaves only the goblin team where this TTM difference can occur. Even then, assuming proper assist for really stupid, which is the rule rather than the exception, it will only affect one TTM attempt in 6.
Yes, it's a difference, but it's certainly not a huge difference, certainly not enough for Skijunkie to completely recode the way the client handles pass and handoff actions, at least until there is absolutly nothing better to do on the client. |
Well it makes a difference if you pick up a loose ball. If you needed a reroll to pick up the ball, you might be tempted to prefer a handover instead of a pass, for example. The fumbbl-ruling always seemed slightly advantageous to me, if you relied on passing game.
That said, I don't think it's a big issue (at least not for me), although it actually seems to have a significant impact on TTMing. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Feb 19, 2004 - 22:52 |
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I don't think the difference is large enough to merit potentially breaking several key features of the game. I do, however see the point that it does have a minor but noticeable impact. In regards to TTM plays, I hardly mind. The little guys usually need all the breaks they can get.
I think that I may take advantage of it too frequently as well. I've realized that perhaps I should try to be a little stricter with following through on my original intentions sometimesl. There's always the option of taking a moment to type "passing" or "hand-off" in the chat box before moving, if you really want to be a stickler about it. Lead by example and all.
The last thing to consider is that this is the sort of thing that people (at least people worth playing  ) would generally let this slide a bit. It happens and who is going to be a stickler for a fun match in open? One could even argue that it's closer to the spirit of the rules as it is in the client than by following it strictly if you are willing to assume a measure of sportsmanship on behalf of your opponent. It would suck to lose a tournament match because someone had the option of pulling off a play that they technically shouldn't be allowed to do but what are the odds of that.
In short (doh! too late!), I think that it is technically wrong but I certainly don't think it's worth spending precious time on. Maybe an inclusion in the Differences... file but that's it IMHO. |
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