Jamerson
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
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 Posted:
Aug 02, 2016 - 23:46 |
 
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My first game with my Secret League Kislev team ended in a 3-0 defeat. https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3824504
However, reflecting on the game, I don't recall making any horrendous blunders or major mistakes. My opponent played well and probably deserved the win, but it doesnt feel like 3-0 reflected the balance of the game.
If anyone has had success with their Kislev teams (or has time to watch the reply), I would appreciate any pointers. I like the Kislev team - quite an interesting set up - so would be nice to get some ideas how to approach playing them. |
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"If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by."
I am a fixer. And my services are valued.
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garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
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Aug 03, 2016 - 01:06 |
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I can't look at your replay as I am at work now, but I will point out that you were playing one of the best coaches on the site. So don't be too discouraged. |
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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
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Lorebass
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
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Yeah, also against a Tilea team with some of the best positional players in the game. If the other coach is better in the strategery department against Kislev it will always be a hard match. Plus Elves. |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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Aug 03, 2016 - 02:57 |
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A few notes.
- As stated, you were playing a good coach, and a team with more starting skills than yours. So it's a rough matchup to begin with.
- You got cute on the first drive, giving the ball to the bear on the touchback. This despite the fact that the opponent had overcommitted on the blitz. It's generally risky at best to give the ball to your big guy, especially when that big guy is slow, and especially when your team doesn't have the strength to punish the opponent for trying to break your cage.
- 1db blitz on turn 2. A needless risk -- it didn't hurt you, but you also didn't get anything from it.
- Running for the end zone solo with the bear. As it happened, opponent popped the lightning bolt, but if it had failed, they still could've brought in multiple players to tie up the bear and blitz the kossar (who was the only player within RS assist range on the bear.) I still think giving the bear the ball was risky, but if you were going to do it, you should've kept the bear in the cage and force your opponents to work to get a tackle zone on him.
- Couple small things from turns 4-5: opponent with block hitting a guy with wrestle, the result is a pow/skull, but you don't use wrestle. Also, not sure of the relevance of making a 5+ dodge with your kossar to get a tackle zone on their elf catcher, who dodges out on a 2+. Kossar made the dodge, but still too much risk for very little reward.
- Little coverage in the backcourt allows them to counter fairly easily. On turn 6, though, I would've found a way to blitz the ball carrier, or at least try. Getting a tackle zone on an elf isn't really reliable defense. If it was all you could've done, that's one thing, but you had ways to dodge out and get a 2db on the guy. Even a 1db would have been preferable.
- 1-assist foul on opposing dwarf is really pointless and wasteful. (With a kossar, no less!) Fouling is only a good idea if the player can't be allowed to get up, or if you have a big man advantage and are targeting a valuable opposing player with one of your extra guys. (Preferably a dirty player.) Fouling a guy far away from the ball, with a fouler who's worth more than the guy being fouled, while your team is down a man and their team isn't... this is a bad move on a few different levels. (Before even getting into the odds of actually damaging an AV9/thick skull player with a 1-assist foul...)
- Nice casualty rolls turn 8! Boromir dies at the end of the first half, as is appropriate.
- Turn 9: not sure why you rerolled a both down when your guy had wrestle. More generally, you overcommitted to the flank against a much faster opponent with passing ability. Being short 2 players hurts here, but it was relatively easy for the opponent to switch the ball laterally, which is what happened.
- Turn 12: Not sure what happened here. You followed up on both lineman knockdowns, forcing you to move a player to get a 2d on the dwarf. Then you advanced two guys into the middle of their defense, in positions where they had players ready to throw 2db blocks without blitzing.
- Turn 13: Not sure what possessed you to dodge into 2 tackle zones there, with the ball unprotected and nothing to gain from the risk. I'm going to assume it was a misclick and move on.
- Turn 14: I could understand getting players forward. I could understand prioritizing securing the ball. I could even understand blocking. I don't get why you made multiple blocks (including another 1db blitz in a non-crucial situation), then tried to pick the ball up with a 2db still available. It doesn't matter at this point -- too late to score 2 anyway -- but this sequence confuses me.
- In general, I'd say you marked the opposition too much in positions where there was no gain to be had. You were marking solo guys with solo guys away from the action, and that leads to one of two things: either the opponent brings in an assist and knocks your player down with a 2db, or they stand there 1 on 1 and cancel each other out. Given that the opponent had multiple elves and more mobility, it was easier for them to dodge out of a 1-on-1 marking scenario. (This was exacerbated after you lost players.)
You were tying your guys up in order to tie an equal number of their guys up, and because that happened on their move, you gave them the first shot at untying them -- or at leaving them tied up and let their remaining untied guys face your untied guys. Given that their untied guys included multiple elf positionals and a human blitzer, they were going to have the advantage here.
I'm not saying don't mark guys, because a lot of the time marking guys is a good idea. When it'll be very difficult for them to escape, for example. When it's going to take them a lot of work to keep you from 2dbing them next turn. When you're trying to hold the line of scrimmage or break a cage. When you don't mind if they hit the marker, because that means the guy being marked can't hit a more important player. But you were marking random players with random players on areas of the pitch far away from the game, and it wasn't the kind of matchup where that decision was in your favor.
All of this is just my opinion, of course, and if you were to watch one of my replays, odds are you'd find as many things to call out. |
_________________
Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 03, 2016 - 08:23 |
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Are you kidding me! He really made his team like that in Secret League.........I wouldn't have taken that match. |
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ahalfling
Joined: Aug 16, 2008
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| Posted:
Aug 03, 2016 - 08:32 |
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It was a tournament game. |
_________________
Beat Claw, Play AV7
(Hell, I ran a forward passing orc team back in the '90s. You probably shouldn't listen to me. Ever.) |
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Garion
Joined: Aug 19, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 03, 2016 - 08:43 |
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Rookie rumble I think. The point of the team to get a wizard each game it would seem. A bit lame, though it's a thematic team, but it's more of a reflection of how broken lightning bolt is than anything else. Never forget use anywhere spell was 4+ in previous additions sure it turned you into a frog but new lighting is the most game breaking thing in crp for any teams with fast agile players
As for kislev strategy be patient don't over commit play a good solid defensive game |
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Jamerson
Joined: Jul 22, 2009
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| Posted:
Aug 03, 2016 - 09:35 |
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Thanks for your feedback (particularly ahalfling for that detailed analysis) 
Looking back, I think my decision to give the ball to my bear was motivated by a desire to get SPP for him - not always easy with big guys. He almost made it to the endzone too (only two spaces away) but had I known wizards could do that much damage, I would have caged instead and opted for a slower march up the pitch, trying to grind my way through. So my lack of knowledge regarding wizards caused that little mishap
I tried to fend and wrestle when appropriate although I did misclick and missed a chance to wrestle on at least one occasion which you picked up on.
Alot of my 1D block were based on me trying to push his players to the sidelines (and hopefully off the pitch) using stand firm to defend against the counter hits. I was trying to get him dodge these players out (and hopefully burn his sole RR) but never happened 
Regarding man marking all his players, this is were I struggled as when mobile players popped up on a wing, I felt I HAD to at least stick a tackle zone on him (even if probably futile) as for me (being less experienced) I couldn't see a viable alternative. Your advice on this aspect is particularly helpful though - will look at how I approach this aspect in the future.
My attempt to foul was based on my success at removing an ogre via fouling in my previous game so I figured worth a try here and anything I can do to reduce his players, I would take. As one of his few players who had the block skill, I thought there at least might be a benefit in removing him.
Being new to Kislev and still getting to grips with the skills, might account for my sequencing being off in certain turns. Usually I'm at least secure in doing my 2D blocks before my 1D ones etc etc but possibly with it being a new team, us playing it late (finished after midnight) and my opponents slower style of play (a few occasions he ran over the 4 minute time limit) meant that my concentration might well have been slipping too. The game took near 2 hours in the end so very possible fatigue might have affected some of my decisions - particularly the sequencing ones.
Thanks again though for some very useful feedback |
_________________
"If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by."
I am a fixer. And my services are valued.
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harvestmouse
Joined: May 13, 2007
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Aug 03, 2016 - 10:23 |
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| ahalfling wrote: | | It was a tournament game. |
Ok, fair enough. A bit hardcore but tourneys are tourneys, no matter what div. |
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