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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 07:18
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I just added the Team Value as specified by the experimental PBBL ruleset to the team page. I would appreciate if those of you who are familiar with the system could doublecheck a few teams and see if there are any problems with the calculation.
AFK_Eagle



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 07:21 Reply with quote Back to top
Just give me the rules for calculation, and I can check all my teams in about 5 minutes for ya...

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 07:22
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Check the experimental rules section of http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbowl/default.asp for the specifics on how it's calculated.
Cervidal



Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 07:36 Reply with quote Back to top
I find it mildly amusing that all my teams' team values are within 10k of my TRs. Not seeing a whole lot of purpose in the change, but I'm probably being narrow-minded.
sk8bcn



Joined: Apr 13, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 12:27 Reply with quote Back to top
is team value here on a purpose? I guess we aren't supposed to use it. But it's a nice add, he he!

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Mr_Launcher



Joined: Dec 27, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 12:39 Reply with quote Back to top
It seems to me that your TV includes players that are missing the match, which I don't think it is supposed to do.

As for TV being close to TR: it's much closer to TS on my teams. Which means it has a great purpose in the board game, because calculating TS is nothing a board game player would want to do.
Eghost



Joined: Oct 19, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 12:58 Reply with quote Back to top
Hmm, treasury should count and players MNG not. Team value mentions gold in the "bank". Another new rule, it can hold 100k and doesn't add to team value.
Telcontar



Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 13:11 Reply with quote Back to top
Note that gold in the bank and any players that are missing the
game due to injury do not count towards the team’s value.
PBBL 1.10 Page 32

Now that has gone wrong i have a Tr 259 team with 2 players missing next match and my TV shows 251 while my Ts is down to 224.

As there is no bank another team of mine is in deep trouble having 140k in its treasury cose its TV is 230 while TR is 220 but again here is one player missing and TS is 211 therefore i think you need to rework that formula to exclude missing players from the TV

I think TS should be fairly the same as TV except for the gold so TV should be TS plus gold in treasury (we have no bank)

I actualy would like to see banks introduce so that i could rob them with my Chaos hehe

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Eghost



Joined: Oct 19, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 13:14 Reply with quote Back to top
well, another thing, with the new rules you should adjust player costs with the skills they get, so both the TR and TV go up. A bit like TS for fumbbl.
gandresch



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 13:54 Reply with quote Back to top
Hi!

I've checked some teams in ratings between 120 to 180. All of the calculations are correct. Will there actually be a change to some divisions where those rules are going to be used?

gan
xcver



Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 14:54 Reply with quote Back to top
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=207772

here my TV is calculated at 1390 but it should be 1400. Maybe it is due to the Frenzy on one Black Orc. Skills that can only be rolled by double should count as +30 instead of the usual +20

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=211918

This is an unplayed team. It has TV of 1030 wheras it should have 1000

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=168287

This has a TV of 1730 whereas I calculated 1740

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=186824

THis has TV 1450 I calculated 1430

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=193159

This has TV 1440 I calculated 1450

Here's my value list separated into pieces for comparison for the last team:

Players: 1070
Rerolls: 200
Fan Factor: 110
Apothecary: 50
Treasury: 20
Total = 1.450

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 15:35
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Fixed problems:

* Mng players are not included in the TV anymore
* Traits are properly worth 30k.

xcver wrote:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=211918

This is an unplayed team. It has TV of 1030 wheras it should have 1000

This team actually shows two problems. The first being that the star player is included in the TV calculation. This is a tricky thing since stars are inducements under the PBBL rules.

The second problem is that the wizards aren't included, which is the way things should be if I read the rules correct.

xcver wrote:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=186824

THis has TV 1450 I calculated 1430


Are you sure you got this team correct? I get it to 1450 when I calculate it manually. Maybe you forgot the 20k for Sure Hands on the thrower?

Telcontar wrote:
Note that gold in the bank and any players that are missing the
game due to injury do not count towards the team’s value.


Yup. I fixed the mng bug (just a minor typo in the code which checked for mng). The bank is obviously not in place yet so TV doesn't include any money that is in there. But since you can't transfer any money to the bank, it's a non-issue at the moment Smile


Last edited by Christer on %b %15, %2005 - %15:%Nov; edited 1 time in total
Telcontar



Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 15:43 Reply with quote Back to top
Yup looks better now both TV dropped considerably with the MNG players not included anymore.

THX Christer

P.S. You quoted my name wrong (LOL)

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xcver



Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 16:28 Reply with quote Back to top
It is true that as of Vault rules Wizards and Star Players bought via inducements do not count towards Team Value. This however is unnecessary under the rules because both can only be acquired as part of inducements during which TV is calculated before any expenses are made. This however doesn't work with the LRB 4 rules and fumbbl because we have to pay in full for wizards and Star Player beforehand (in a Life game the money would still be in the treasury at the beginning of the game) thus they should be weighed in with their total value since they have a net monetary worth.

As for the Wood Elves team you're right. I sure enough forgot the sure hands... Very Happy

Christer wrote:
Fixed problems:

* Mng players are not included in the TV anymore
* Traits are properly worth 30k.

xcver wrote:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=211918

This is an unplayed team. It has TV of 1030 wheras it should have 1000

This team actually shows two problems. The first being that the star player is included in the TV calculation. This is a tricky thing since stars are inducements under the PBBL rules.

The second problem is that the wizards aren't included, which is the way things should be if I read the rules correct.

xcver wrote:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=186824

THis has TV 1450 I calculated 1430


Are you sure you got this team correct? I get it to 1450 when I calculate it manually. Maybe you forgot the 20k for Sure Hands on the thrower?

Telcontar wrote:
Note that gold in the bank and any players that are missing the
game due to injury do not count towards the team’s value.


Yup. I fixed the mng bug (just a minor typo in the code which checked for mng). The bank is obviously not in place yet so TV doesn't include any money that is in there. But since you can't transfer any money to the bank, it's a non-issue at the moment Smile

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"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts
Karhumies



Joined: Oct 17, 2004
Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2005 - 16:41 Reply with quote Back to top
Could we have the TV included right after the team name, as TR and TS are now (at least after it has been completely fixed, that is)?

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