Lord_Splutticus
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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  Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 15:27 |
 
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1.Would you please consider making the standard FUMBBL channel for Unranked and creating a FUMBBLRanked channel in IRC.
2. Would you please put Unranked as top choice in menu's on the site like team creation and on your coach pages. Most new coaches for instance start teams in Ranked, because they think that is the starting division because of site lay-out. At the moment Unranked is always at the bottom of the lists and Ranked at the top. Anyone with even a superficial knowledge of interface design knows that that really boosts Ranked and hampers Unranked.
I thus would advise (again) to just switch both divisions interface-wise.
3. Create a seperate tab on the "Teams" page for Unranked teams and make it the first tab.
And now for some radical suggestions ....
4. Rename Unranked to "Standard"
5. Block stunty teams like the Pact teams were blocked and give Stunty the option to organize tournaments.
Which could lead to the following division structure...
[S]tandard* (Currently Unranked, LRB teams. No 4v4, no 1v1. All non-LRB teams get auto-transferred to DivX, allows team transfers from Ranked)
[D]ivX* (As Unranked is now, with all the rosters and weird formats-a-go-go, allows team transfers from all other divisions)
[R]anked+ (just as it is now)
[s]tunty* (same as it is currently)
[L]adder+ (again, no changes)
[F]action+ (again, no changes)
* = tournaments are allowed.
+ = Division with its own internal ranking mechanism, either CR, Faction Medals or Ladder Points.
Anyone any feedback, further suggestions? |
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Last edited by Lord_Splutticus on %b %24, %2006 - %21:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 15:32 |
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I think that I'd move my beloved Hellfishes from Ranked to Standard in that case.
Is this enough to give you a hint about how strongly I support these suggestions?
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Drud
Joined: Jan 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 15:34 |
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All 5 suggestions are great IMO! |
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BB-Pad
Joined: May 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 15:41 |
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I would totally agree with these suggestions and think it would be a positive change for all of fumbbl.
1-4. As things are set up now, noob coaches will start their Fumbbl experience in Ranked so these changes would beneficial, not only to noobs but also to coaches that care about CR.
5. I've been suggesting this recently myself http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=6892 but not much interest in the suggestion (perhaps because it's in the stunty forum or because I'm not an active stunty player). |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 15:46 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | I think that I'd move my beloved Hellfishes from Ranked to Standard in that case.
Is this enough to give you a hint about how strongly I support these suggestions?
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Sadly that didn't work at all when unranked was first introduced in the form it is now. I remember the discussions back then, and I remember that a good number of people (including Evo and myself) that didn't care about CR moved their teams over to unranked. A larger number said that they'd think about it.
The idea was to actually make ranked competitive and give those that want to play for Coach ranking a level playing field - i.e. opponents playing with the same goal. I still was looking for challenging games just with a slightly less serious edge to it, when I moved to unranked, and I think most of those that promoted the change thought about that too.
Now despite not actively playing anymore, I sticked to that decision while I frequented the page - with the result of having to spend more and more time waiting to get a fair enough matchup. Just renaming a division and slightly changing the format is not enough - it requires people to actually commit themselves - and that means a large enough number - to get the division going and keep it active. That's not what happened.
Even if unranked is moved to the top of the team creation choices it won't become much more popular as long as the community doesn't really embrace it and creates the traffic required to make it a viable alternative to ranked. New players aren't stupid. If they have to wait ages for getting games in unranked it is no surprise if they switch to ranked where it takes close to no time to find something.
The same goes for divx or ladder - if the community doesn't accept the possibilities offered and actually start to use them no design changes and new names will make a difference. We've been through that before and as long as those changes only are a one-sided thing, it won't work.
What really is required is that people actually _really_ want to make unranked work, and _really_ want to play there. It requires people to _really_ only play for one off games, and not for CR requirements.
-Mnemon |
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Lord_Splutticus
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:01 |
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Mnemon,
Unranked isn't DivX, it isn't near-dead. It already has a fair amount of games and doesn't need that much more to become what people really want. These changes would actually make a real difference.
Off course if you think that everything we know about psychology, ludology and interface design is a heap of drivvle, then I could have a hard time to convince you.
While the changes you refer to that were made back then were good, there were also several changes back then that were REALLY counter-productive to reach this goal. These 5 suggestions address some of those counter-productive changes and furthermore try to address some of the reasons why a lot of the current Ranked coaches are unwilling to commit to Unranked "as is". |
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BB-Pad
Joined: May 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:04 |
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I disagree, Mnemon. The overriding draw of ranked is the ability to get games quickly.
I think the combination of the primary IRC channel and primary division on Gamefinder & team creation being unranked or "Standard" would be enough to eventually bring about change.
It's not going to happen overnight but it's not going to happen at all unless these changes are made as there will always be arguments about pact & stunty teams in unranked / being able to lfg in IRC without having to open another channel etc. etc. |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:20 |
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I don't think that the changes are bad in themself Lord_Splutticus ... just that I don't think they will be the heal all solution on their own. By all means it's not wrong to try even, and given I am not really participating much my opinion shouldn't have much of an effect here. What BB-Pad sees is true as well - the problem is that ranked singlehandidly rules the one-off kind of playing, and that in itself is a large draw to that division - new players will notice. All I am saying that I think for that to really work it needs to change both sides. Just turning one wheel doesn't do much - only if both sides of the problem get some attention (that is attention from the administrative side in terms of design changes and some real commitment from the community) will make sure that it actually works.
All the arguments where there before - and I do agree with what you said in the other thread - in a ranked environment fluff and "non-serious" "uncompetitive" team development just don't compute. Otherwise things become a joke and CR just loses all worth - if everyone in a ranked division plays competitive there can be no cherry picking - just differences in skill (and in some cases luck). So yar, I am quite in line with what you'd like I have a variety of divisions that range from very competitive (faction) to completly whacko (stunty) with ranked leaning slightly to the one side and unranked to the other. However - as long as the community doesn't embrace that philosophy (and that goes beyond just only administrative changes to the page) people always will run to where the most games are played. Change requires commitment.
The changes might work, but it does require more then that. The new ladder was basically a community designed projected, where Christer gave a lot of possibilities for influence on the basic structure - much more then the community ever had on the other divisions - and still it is, alongside divx, one of the less frequented divisions. It always goes both ways with changes like that. Just changing the laws doesn't change a "societies" rules and perception.
-Mnemon |
Last edited by Mnemon on %b %24, %2006 - %16:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:29 |
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I would add, find a way to make co-exist free Standart teams with tournaments one (I am blocked at 15 and all are connected to tourneys. |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:30 |
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I think these are fantastic ideas, I would change my teams to Standard division and I think these changes would actually work. |
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Lord_Splutticus
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:34 |
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Thesquig : His sister sucks too! 
My luck rating took a severe hit though when Nuffle found out that I knew that from first-hand experience.
(I don't wanna know how you found out that Nuffle himselfs sucks) |
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BB-Pad
Joined: May 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:35 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | I would add, find a way to make co-exist free Standart teams with tournaments one (I am blocked at 15 and all are connected to tourneys. |
Perhaps play faster paced tournaments (1 week turnaround) or knockouts so they end faster? You would also be able to play tournaments in Stunty & Ranked leaving a few spaces in Standard for one-off games. |
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Gitzbang
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:37 |
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If this means i can have more than five teams in the "Standard" Category, i'd move all my teams there. They were opted out of ranking when it was still possible and just remain in "Ranked", cause i like to find games with 'em. |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:37 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | I would add, find a way to make co-exist free Standart teams with tournaments one (I am blocked at 15 and all are connected to tourneys. |
I've always thought it'd make more sense to give a maximum amount of teams across Fumbbl that you can more or less freely spread around the divisions as you want to. That is - keep the maximum of five in ranked, and two in ladder and faction - remove all limits from stunty/unranked/divx and leave the choice where to spend ones teams allotment within those boundaries to the user.
-Mnemon |
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Lord_Splutticus
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2006 - 16:38 |
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| BB-Pad wrote: | | sk8bcn wrote: | | I would add, find a way to make co-exist free Standart teams with tournaments one (I am blocked at 15 and all are connected to tourneys. |
Perhaps play faster paced tournaments (1 week turnaround) or knockouts so they end faster? You would also be able to play tournaments in Stunty & Ranked leaving a few spaces in Standard for one-off games. |
Ranked still wouldn't have tourneys probably. |
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