Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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 Posted:
Jan 16, 2006 - 23:22 |
 
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This poll is open only for members of Grudge League. If you are not a member yet, you need to join our league. THEN you are allowed to vote. 
Background: Star players
Star players will remain forbidden on Season 2 as well. Normal exceptions to this rule (= goblin secret weapons, habeli's Sappe "Iron chef" Butterbear" and special "Star players are allowed"-tournaments) will remain the same.
Background: Wizards
This is a poll about whether or not wizards (= "regular" wizards and Dwarven runesmiths) should be allowed in Grudge League.
At the moment, the only allowed wizards in Grudge League are Halfling master chef with his ingredients & Necromantic and Undead necromancers.
I will offer you with some arguments for & against regular wizards:
For Wizards:
a) they add to the Fun Factor. a good game needs to be a bit chaotic
b) they give agi teams a handicap versus bashier teams (wizards hit better to low AG players = Khemri don't like fireballs)
c) high TR teams will have something to do with extra cash instead of having to throw it away or stashing it
d) We have max. 1 DP per roster -rule, so the teams are not bashed too badly as it is. We can safely add wizards without causing too many additional injuries for the teams IMO
e) wizards might target the opposing high SPP player but - hey - so they should! ^^
f) and g) Main reasons for allowing wizards: LESS STALLING AND LESS CAGING! If the opponent has a wizard ready, do you feel like stalling a turn so they can either blast the carrier or blast the cage open in order to blitz the carrier? I don't think so. Allowing wizards would result in a wider variety of playing styles instead of simple low AG cage & stall.
Against Wizards: (My personal reply to each statement underlined)
a) Not all races can hire wizards (as per LRB)
b) Not all teams have money to hire wizards (not really a problem in itself, but might widen the gap in TR between two teams)
c) More injuries, especially to high SPP players (Injuries will always happen and high SPP players are always the most hunted on the pitch. Even if wizards will be added, this won't change.)
d) "Wizards are not skill play. They are luck play." (Blood Bowl is partly skill play, partly luck play. Chances are the wizard will just miss, anyway.)
e) Wizards can ruin a final match. (Then let's allow them only in the regular tournament matches (= no wizards in the playoffs) and Open Round Robin training.)
f) Wizards can wreck low TR teams. (Then let's allow them only in Average and High TR matches.)
As you should have noticed by now, I am personally heavily biased FOR wizards. I feel they add much to the fun factor of the league - just like the bounty bulletin board does.
Oh, and a rules question: Should wizard-caused injuries to hunted players give the +2 tourney point bonus? |
Last edited by Karhumies on %b %17, %2006 - %00:%Jan; edited 4 times in total |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2006 - 23:39 |
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| Karhumies wrote: | | a) Not all teams can hire wizards -> e.g. Nurgle might be facing tough times ... |
I'm not in the league but: why wouldn't Nurgle teams be allowed Wizards? They're certainly not on the list of teams that aren't permitted them. I haven't used Nurgle on fumbbl, so maybe this is a fumbbl-only 'feature'? |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2006 - 23:43 |
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| pac wrote: | | Karhumies wrote: | | a) Not all teams can hire wizards -> e.g. Nurgle might be facing tough times ... |
I'm not in the league but: why wouldn't Nurgle teams be allowed Wizards? They're certainly not on the list of teams that aren't permitted them. I haven't used Nurgle on fumbbl, so maybe this is a fumbbl-only 'feature'? |
Actually, I am not sure about this. The FUMBBL site does not help in solving this, either...
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=help&op=races
There is no mention about Wizards there for any race. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2006 - 23:52 |
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Well the LRB's list says:
| Quote: | | These teams [ie - who can't have a normal Wizard] are the Dwarf teams, who may only take a Runesmith; Halfling teams, who may only take a Master Chef; and Undead and Necromantic teams, who have to take a Necromancer. The special rules for these types of Wizardare described below. Note: Khemri teams cannot have a Wizard. |
But not having tried Nurgle on fumbbl I'm not sure whether the exact same list is implemented here. |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 16, 2006 - 23:56 |
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Yes, I was referring to the FUMBBL "features" section of your message...
We need a way for checking that all races that should have a wizard actually have access to a wizard here on FUMBBL.
I know the star players have had issues here on FUMBBL but most of those have recently been fixed. Some star players (Thrud, mainly) can not be coded into the JavaBB at all, though. |
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Vaporizer
Joined: Aug 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 00:00 |
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just checked my nurgle team (conveniently sitting on 60k atm) and the 'hire' button next to wizard is all present and correct, so i presume they're just as able to hire a wizard as anyone else... |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 00:02 |
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| Vaporizer wrote: | | just checked my nurgle team (conveniently sitting on 60k atm) and the 'hire' button next to wizard is all present and correct, so i presume they're just as able to hire a wizard as anyone else... |
Thanks. My team had only 20k spare, so I was unable to check by myself.
I have now edited my first post by removing the reference to Nurgle and adding a reference to LRB. |
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soren72
Joined: Nov 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 00:14 |
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I voted 'NOT NORMALLY - only in a single special "wizards allowed" tournament!' 'cause I think the way it runs nows is fine. If you allow wizards - as you said yourself - you give an advantage to AG teams. Why do you want to do that? I vote if wizards are in then so are starplayers, but couldn't find it on the list. |
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dzonvejn
Joined: Sep 21, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 00:40 |
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voted yes in every single way....
edit: because I think like this: If it is in the rules, it means it's OK, and it's play-tested. I would even allow more DP's and SP's... If you get DP to everyone, yol''l not have block with anyone .... and you will have a usefull skill less... but it's not the topic
Anyway, I like wizards, and think they are a fun to play with.... |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 00:53 |
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| soren72 wrote: | | I voted 'NOT NORMALLY - only in a single special "wizards allowed" tournament!' 'cause I think the way it runs nows is fine. If you allow wizards - as you said yourself - you give an advantage to AG teams. Why do you want to do that? I vote if wizards are in then so are starplayers, but couldn't find it on the list. |
Star players are too unbalanced between races, especially as it's impossible to hire Thrud cheaply to AG teams in JavaBB/FUMBBL.
On tabletop, hiring Thrud to AG team, stalling the first half anf fouling with Thrud as much as possible before scoring (so he'd get banned instead of going to the opposing team) rocks. |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 00:55 |
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At the moment the poll looks like the wizzies will be in at least some of the matches.
Most likely not all matches. |
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Drud
Joined: Jan 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 17:08 |
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I really had trouble picking the right choice, so I'll have to say why. I picked the option
"YES, but not in the playoffs and/or Low TR matches and/or training!"
I dont see why they shouldn't be allowed in the playoffs, since they're the most popular (most specced, most exciting) games and should therefore have a little (potential) extra bonus! 
I do agree they should be disallowed in both training games (the open round robin) and the newbie/low TR games. The reason for this being that they are mostly destructive and not really suited for training "friendly" games (if such a thing exists in Blood Bowl ). They can also be quite devastating to a low TR team (with some luck/unluck).
In average and higher TR teams I think they're fine though. It gives the higher TR teams something to spend their money on, and puts more spark (=fireballs) into the game.
I am, however, not sure if it's a good idea to allow them in EVERY tournament. But I still think that 1 tournament a season is very little, maybe make it half the tournaments instead. |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 17, 2006 - 17:13 |
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I voted wizards only allowed in specail tournies. Lord knows my 0-1-7 Amazons could use the help of a Wizard, but I think it is one of the things that attracts me to Grudge League. |
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Karhumies
Joined: Oct 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 18, 2006 - 08:05 |
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The current opinion seems to be that
a) Wizards should be allowed in average to high TR games but not in Newbie/Low TR games
b) Wizards won't be allowed in all average to high TR tournaments
c) Wizards will definitely be allowed in about a half of the average/high TR tournaments, including the playoff matches
d) No wizards in training matches (fluff-wise: why would the wizards even bother?) |
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Drud
Joined: Jan 27, 2005
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| Posted:
Jan 18, 2006 - 12:32 |
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I agree with a, b, c and d |
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