vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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  Posted:
Mar 05, 2006 - 22:00 |
 
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When facing dark elves my skaven teams run in serious trouble. Is that only my personal problem or a general one, like the amazons vs dwarves problem? |
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Hoodeddwarf
Joined: Feb 15, 2005
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| Posted:
Mar 05, 2006 - 22:09 |
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I don't think that dark elves have any intrinsic factor that makes them good versus skaven (unlike dwarf-amazons) however i suppose the combination of generally a fair amount of block, decent armour and the ability to dodge away might make them a tricky proposition for some skaven sides. They are however probably the slowest race of all the elves, so gutters could pose big problems for them if things go right. I would of thought that like playing any race a bit of luck and a fair amount of patience might do the trick. |
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nin
Joined: May 27, 2005
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Mar 05, 2006 - 22:33 |
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Well, Witches are good at hunting Gutter Runners and Dark Elf linos are far better than Skaven linos, even Stormvermin are no match for Dark Elf Blitzers at low TR, but as teams grow the RO, the mutations, strength skills more available... and OTT Gutter Runners, it should get fair at least untill TR skirockets. But it's not like Amazons vs Dwarves at least IMHO |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Mar 06, 2006 - 01:21 |
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While this is true for high TR, it´s not for low TR IMO. I know that I contradict nin here, but at low TR, the intrinsic skills and good stats-lines plus the initial strenght-skills available will give skaven an edge. For DE, it´s very hard to stop the 2-turn-gutter offense, while Darkelfs have the weakest offense in low TR of all and usually have a disadvantage in numbers AND rerolls. On high TR, DE shine, while skaven tend to lose some of their bite as it´s hard to keep the valuable players with worthy mutations/stats-increases alive.
Fearsome opponents for skaven are humans, who are better armored, can keep up with their speed and have a fair amount of strenght-skills around. You will need good mutations to beat then (claw does a nice job) and excelling gutters to outscore them. |
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Scamp
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
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Mar 06, 2006 - 12:41 |
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I don't think it's true for a high TR or a low TR. At high TR Dark Elves will have some things that'll cause problems, but honestly every team should have something like that or else they're a really bad race.
There is nothing about the DE that a Skaven team should overly fear, especially compared to other teams. Nothing can match the ST5 Rat Ogre, and even without a RO the Skaven can just about match them punch for punch. And since they're another team with just average speed, I again don't see why you'd have any problems against a DE team.
So I'd have to say it's just a personal problem. Perhaps if you were more specific we could get into more detail. |
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coffindodger
Joined: Jul 01, 2005
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Mar 06, 2006 - 13:03 |
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DE aren't exactly an 'average speed' team once they get going - 4 blitzers and 2 WE with movement over 6 makes them pretty quick compared to most teams...
BFN
Paul |
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Hindsberg
Joined: May 14, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 13:18 |
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DE's tend to get alot of tackle faster then the other elven teams. So there is almost always a tackle player close to the scoring gutter. Imo de's takes more defensive skills then the other elf teams. |
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Panda_
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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Mar 06, 2006 - 13:25 |
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| coffindodger wrote: | | DE aren't exactly an 'average speed' team once they get going - 4 blitzers and 2 WE with movement over 6 makes them pretty quick compared to most teams... |
Don't compare with others teams, compare with skaven in this thread.
I dont think DE are a problem. But they are when they have lot's of double (guard and MB), and many sidestep. But in this case, it's high TR DE, in that case, the skaven should have the same on they gutter, and have scarefull Storms Vermin. If you have good SV and RO, you can win, if you don't... |
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Kamahl
Joined: Oct 24, 2005
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Mar 06, 2006 - 13:36 |
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High TR Dark elves usually run in fear from a team that can outrun them and pumell them with claws. 
Higher movement is key to sucess here - you need to use it to your advantage. |
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El_Jairo
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
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Mar 06, 2006 - 13:50 |
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Strange, my DE's usually get in trouble vs Skaven. I expect their armour to break faster than mine but untill now the opposite is mostly true. The thing with Skaven is: if you can't get them off the pitch they can outrun you and you need a lot of GFI's to get back into possition, which burns RR for the crucial blocks.
Maybe I don't coach the DE too well but I rather focus on getting the GR out, because they are too fast to handle for the DE's. So every opportunity I have I'll hunt them or a mutated rat down.
Maybe it is better to focus on their weakest link, to start outnumbering them? But as I see it, they have enough reserves for that. Injuring an important player often hurts a team more, although it can be more difficult. |
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Curro
Joined: Jun 07, 2005
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Mar 07, 2006 - 08:05 |
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I have the same problem that El_Jairo. THe best solution I´ve found is to foul the GR till the rest of the team is so scared to go close to your players. |
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coffindodger
Joined: Jul 01, 2005
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Mar 09, 2006 - 13:34 |
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I know it is accepted wisdom to target key problem players on the opposing team, but a simple tactic of taking out whoever you can, whenever you can will leave these players more vulnerable to this. (Probably stating the obvious with that thuogh...)
With DE, fouling can be an option but one that needs every foul to count - DP is an essential as are an assist or two, even against low armour targets.
BFN
Paul |
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slanter
Joined: Aug 02, 2004
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Mar 09, 2006 - 14:03 |
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Gorn: Had to look at your team to understand how DE could be a problem for you...
There's no wonder you get beaten by DE teams (where most players have 1 skill)
because you have 65% of your spp on 3 of your rats!!!! 
There should be no problem for a decent DE team to take it slow, grind down
your blockless linos, blitz your runners and dominate the second half... 
Try to spread those points out and retire some injured spp-hoggers, like this:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=146203 |
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Panda_
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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Mar 09, 2006 - 14:15 |
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I made my last match with my favorite team: Skaven.
And i realise that i have a mixed record against them. I'm about 45% of win against them, but many match happened when my team was in bad shape. They can be outrunned, but you have to get full advantage of your speed when you can.
Playing DE, maybe need a better preparation like suggested above.
PS: The major difficulty with skaven is that linerats need 1 skill. And those linerats are not precisely good to gain Spp or to stay uninjured. |
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