jetliracer
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
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  Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 13:14 |
 
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As always I apologize in advance if this topic has been discussed to death i another post.
We're a group of people who have adopted online blood bowl in favor of table top because of the ease and excellent gametime/spenttime ratio that it offers.
We run a little six player tournament in Unranked and we're just finishing up our first season. Already we have quite a spread in TR and TS which leaves us with some discussion points for the structure of the next season.
Of course we like the continuity aspect of blood bowl (who doesn't?) and would like to continue with our respective teams. Question is whether the handicap table as it is implemented now is good enough to even out the differences in TR and TS, so that the games will become reasonably balanced?
We're already considering some house rules or some sort of crush, but as it is now, in FUMBBL crush would be limited to firing/retiring players, drop rerolls or throwing cash away (actually I am not sure if the later is possible).
If anyone of you have experience with this we would very much appreciate your input!
BTW this is our group http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=3823 |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 13:29 |
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There are quite a few ongoing leagues that use TR caps to even things out - the SWL has been using these for quite some time, and found that it works pretty well to keep things in check. I wouldn't be too worried with the differences in rating you have at the moment, but when you get up into the higher ratings (TR200+), you'll find that some teams are so far behind that their coaches don't get to have a whole lot of fun (unless losing and being decimated in the process is their idea of fun).
There are some other options, but really, a TR cap is the simplest way of doing things. There was a league running a while back called the Cut Throat League -- in addition to TR caps, the higher placed teams also had players nominated for "execution" by the other coaches, which kept them in check for the following season.
Oh yeah - most leagues seem to implement a TR cap as the maximum rating at the start of a season, allowing coaches to develop their teams as much as they like during the season.
Check out the rules for some of the leagues that have been running a while, most of them have something in place to keep things fair and fun for all. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 13:34 |
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Handicaps are completely insufficient when it comes to evening teams out when the TR difference starts to grow above 30 or so. You can reasonably count a handicap as worth about 5 TR (just as it's worth 5 TS for FUMBBL CR calculations). |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 13:40 |
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The White Isle League uses SWL-style TR caps in its divisions - although we're quite a young league so they've rarely had to be enforced so far.
On the other hand, the tournament we're running currently is a (less serious) knock-out competition where we just threw all the teams into a random draw. This threw up some serious TR/TS mismatches … but in at least two cases the underdog has come out on top! Also, in the league itself we've seen teams supposedly promoted 'out of their depth' perform far better than expected, not only staying in but prospering in the new division.
So my advice would be, yes, to take some steps along these lines - but not to worry about putting too many of them in. Coaching and a little bit of luck can make up for a huge difference in TR. |
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Malthor
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 13:59 |
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Cash can be 'thrown away' through hiriing and firing of Assistant coaches if you want to do it 10K at at time, or buying and firing players (or buying and dropping rerolls) if you want to lose bigger chunks. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 14:04 |
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You have a close group of team. So a cap in TR would suck IMO. You're at low TR anyway, so or you pick for a low cap, what is unfun for team development, or a high one and then it remains effectless.
IMO set a TR limit of something like: Mean group TR and allow teams to play U open games to build their teams up to that limit.
ps:The fling coach will go nowhere :p |
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Ash
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 15:38 |
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A special way to reduced the gap can also be making a match between the lower and the higher team and making the higher one concede. It will reduce the higher TR by one and raise the lower one by a lot more (2 MVP and double cash). |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 15:44 |
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| Ash wrote: | | A special way to reduced the gap can also be making a match between the lower and the higher team and making the higher one concede. It will reduce the higher TR by one and raise the lower one by a lot more (2 MVP and double cash). |
Well taking apart the legallity question in Fumbbl, that starts to suck when you have 51 spps players. |
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jetliracer
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 16:09 |
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One of the reasons for this topic was (as prudently pointed out above) that some of the teams in our group face a future of pain... So we're considering letting these coaches substitute the current team with a brand new one. This of course introduces some problems that the handicap table, if I understand your posts correctly, is not able to compensate for.
Everyone in our group however is in agreement on not using the participating teams outside of the group. This is also because we sometimes meet and play over some beers and a meal - causing the result upload to come from the same IP. So we prefer not mix things around.
As pointed out our TR's are not very far from each other yet, but that will surely change. So we need to think of something.
I considered setting a TR cap that is the exact average of all participating teams' TR (as also suggested by sk8bcn) - thus making room for a continous development of all the teams while letting in new teams as well. Perhaps for this to work the lowest team's TR would weigh double in the average calculation..
What I would love to see is a system or division where the league commisioner could tinker with the participating teams' roster. This could open up for some interesting crush/house rules. Of course the involved teams should not be allowed in the other divisions. But that is another topic in itself. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2006 - 16:24 |
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Maybe allow then some friendlys between season for the lowest teams to boost their TR up.
Mainly: AV7 will have a hard time and maybe if the division gets loaded with team killers. Else, it's ok, usually, ageing and stuff means ups and downs for everyone. |
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jetliracer
Joined: Nov 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2006 - 11:49 |
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I tried looking through the rules of the SWL for inspiration, but the rule links on the group's page seem to be broken.
As it is now I think we will proceed with an averaged TR cap and see how it works out.
BTW - has the idea of a division where the group's commissioner can modify the participating team's rosters been discussed before?
I could imagine there would be others in a similar situation as our league who would welcome the ability to implement some simple house/crush rules in the form of roster changes. That being said it would certainly require some work (server side) and I am unsure how many would make use of it.
Thanks for your suggestions.  |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2006 - 12:36 |
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| jetliracer wrote: | | BTW - has the idea of a division where the group's commissioner can modify the participating team's rosters been discussed before? |
It has. It has never happened, for three reasons, I think. Firstly:
| Quote: | | it would certainly require some work (server side) |
Secondly, it could well prove to be open to abuse. Thirdly, with the exception of Stunty (and rare events like site birthdays, etc), FUMBBL does not use house rules (or implement things which make it easier for leagues to apply house rules), and a commissioner adding things to rosters would count as that. |
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Kyyberi
Joined: Nov 27, 2004
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Jan 01, 2007 - 16:54 |
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Well, in NFL we have TR cap. Or Salary Cap as I call it.
Your team may have max TR of 175, without the Gold. So you may store gold, as it really doesn't affect TS. Just gives handicaps.
And between seasons teams may play as many exhibition games as they like to develope their teams. When the season starts (and during it) teams must be under Salary Cap. |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 01, 2007 - 17:09 |
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| jetliracer wrote: | | I tried looking through the rules of the SWL for inspiration, but the rule links on the group's page seem to be broken. |
I think there was some trouble with the SWL server, loss of a hard drive, and a whole bunch of data with it (naturally without a recent backup). You can find most of the info in the SWL Guide (or via the SWL Website). Some of the rules may have been tweaked slightly from what you'll find there, but they should be pretty close to what we're using. |
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