mister__joshua
Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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I'm of the belief that PO is the problem and not claw or Mb.
My Fix:
- HMs idea that PO is Big Guy only
- Big Guys can remove Negatraits on doubles
- I would also bring back the +1 fouling option
- Allow stunty teams to Activate with a nominally higher TV, boosting inducements.
Positives to this - it requires no client changes, all changes are site-side. It brings the currently overcosted Big Guys back in to play. It also boosts all stunty races a great deal.
Alternative:
- Change the way PO works completely. Go back to LRB4 Pile On or come up with something new eg. Pile On player can make a free Foul action against the prone player.
Reasoning - any suggested changes are 'rules changes'. If we're changing rules, why not go all the way and change the problem aspect completely. |
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sonrises
Joined: May 02, 2013
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 Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 12:36 |
 
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| Stanley wrote: | why not leave as it is, except for 1 change.
If you PO YOU also take a AV/cas roll!!
After all, you are jumping on top of an armoured player. Not a pillow. Will hurt you also. Be funny seeing the lame teams losing their legend Claw POMBers to cas or RIP whilst their target is able to carry on. Will make more people think on how to play |
I like this! 
...and healing potions available at a price, each potion healing ONLY one stat each time.
PO takes AV/CAS roll... it would change the way people use PO as it can backfire badly to anyone over-using this skill. And it is a minor change to the rules. And as Stanley said "After all, you are jumping on top of an armoured player. Not a pillow"
Healing potions: It will reduce the frustration or impact of facing bashing teams and taking serious damage. At a fair price, you heal a couple of key players and carry on with your team. No big deal. If that coach you faced enjoys min/max, it is his choice. At least you can carry on building your team, at a cost of course. And again, minor change to the rulebook.
And i tell you one thing, if i know that i can heal my key players when facing a min/maxer in the box, my approach would be:
Ok, there we go! i don't care about the match result! let's seriously damage a couple of CPOMBERS!
...and to twist it a little bit more...Potions CAN NOT be used on TEAMS or at least PLAYERS with CPOMB skills equipped!!
In other words: Min/Max/Basher take stat injuries or start the whole thing over again! hahaha It will discourage some of them   |
Last edited by sonrises on %b %16, %2013 - %13:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 13:26 |
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My fix:
1) Modify the rules or don't, but if you do, change them for Ranked and Blackbox alike (maybe run a trial period in Blackbox first). Because any rules change worth implementing should serve to make the game better, not just remedy the problem with Box matchmaking, which it cannot, imho.
2) Change matchmaking so you aren't scheduled to a TV as close to your own as possible, but rather, to a random TV within a certain bracket of your own. This means you play more "up" and "down" and with inducements. Also, shift the bracket for certain teams. For example, Halflings/Goblins play further "up", High TV Elves/Chaos play further "down".
3) Implement rule that says "abuse of scheduling system is prohibited". Admins decide on a (restrictive) case-by-case basis what constitutes an "abuse". |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 14:25 |
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Remove PO (I'd also support this for all divisions). |
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Author of Firehurler (Twinborn Trilogy Book #1), Aethersmith (Book #2), Sourcethief (Book #3) |
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Zed
Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 14:30 |
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Give PO access to only treemen, that's the only player with which this skill makes any sense. |
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"Be somebody or be the fool of somebody" Mr T |
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SzieberthAdam
Joined: Aug 31, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 14:48 |
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My suggestion:
1. Delete Blackbox.
2. Initiate an FFB main division.
3. Initial rulsest for FFB division would be NTBB or would converge to something which is close to it.
4. Allow Blackbox teams to migrate to Ranked or FFB.
5. Gamefinder for both division: Option to enable automatic scheduler (MM) for a team in gamefinder which would work pretty the same like Box MM: If there is enough (8?) teams which were enabled, it deals the challenges. Coach could still see optional matchings and use GF the default way. Who declines freeze all his teams for 15-30 mins and can not decline his next auto-challenge.
6. Match reports show division logo and the use of automatic scheduler.
7. Team pages should show games/games autoscheduled and challenges received/accepted/played, challenges made/accepted/made.
8. Establish the FFB rules comittee including Christer, plasmoids, Kalimar among some other experienced members.
EDIT: I think I finallyzed my thoughts here. |
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Last edited by SzieberthAdam on %b %19, %2013 - %19:%Dec; edited 4 times in total |
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Tarabaralla
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 15:10 |
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EDIT - This:
| PurpleChest wrote: | Appoint a B Sheriff.
Appoint 2 deputies.
Give them the task of cleaning up B. insist all 3 mist agree for any action.
Look away while they get stuff done.
Move on.
No appeals, no investigation, no discussion, no bans issued for Divisions other than B. Just B teams deleted, and B bans enacted. Take out the trash.
Never going to happen, as Christer is too nice. Probably a good thing too, as it would change the nature of fumbbl as much as any house rule will. |
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Last edited by Tarabaralla on %b %16, %2013 - %17:%Dec; edited 2 times in total |
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jamesfarrell129
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 15:20 |
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My suggestions:
- Stop expecting people on the interwebs to be anything other than obnoxious, when hidden behind computer screens. If there are ways of breaking a system, people will find it and use it.
- Keep box as it is; there are warnings all over the team creation pages about it not being for rookies, if they can't read those then so be it.
- Ban all mention of NTBB from these pages forevermore... |
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NAF name: sandwich |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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Appoint a B Sheriff.
Appoint 2 deputies.
Give them the task of cleaning up B. insist all 3 mist agree for any action.
Look away while they get stuff done.
Move on.
No appeals, no investigation, no discussion, no bans issued for Divisions other than B. Just B teams deleted, and B bans enacted. Take out the trash.
Never going to happen, as Christer is too nice. Probably a good thing too, as it would change the nature of fumbbl as much as any house rule will. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 17:13 |
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| PurpleChest wrote: | Appoint a B Sheriff.
Appoint 2 deputies.
Give them the task of cleaning up B. insist all 3 mist agree for any action.
Look away while they get stuff done.
Move on.
No appeals, no investigation, no discussion, no bans issued for Divisions other than B. Just B teams deleted, and B bans enacted. Take out the trash.
Never going to happen, as Christer is too nice. Probably a good thing too, as it would change the nature of fumbbl as much as any house rule will. |
Good god....thank the heavens this nonsense will never be implemented.
Now, as against any knee jerk changes I am....
1. Apply Christers claw/PO suggestions
2. apply the +1 for fouling (everyone benefits)
3. make Sneaky Git worthwhile
OR.....apply the NTBB changes and see how they work out.
If this happened I would get back to playing my old LRB loves (human/Khemri) in the box, because unlike the coaches I regard as the more sophisticated members of this site like PurpleChest (well, up until his bash 'final solution' anyway) some of us play BLood Bowl for the blood. Funny that eh? |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 17:27 |
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| Chainsaw wrote: | | Chainsaw wrote: | Limit the % of games played in *box with any particular race. You want to play that race more? Play some other races. Perhaps even subdivide the races. Group Chaos/Pact/Nurgle etc.
No rule changes. Just force diversity to stop the smallmans of this world from playing/spamming a single race. |
No thoughts on this? |
Yes, but we're only allowed to... oh pooh! |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 17:49 |
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Things I've said elsewhere, but am seeing other people saying similar now...
1) To play in the box you must make teams from different racial groups (baller, tweener, basher, or claw, elf, other). You must activate one team from each group for each draw. The draw will favor picking the team with the fewest games played using the normal MM routine (so no change needed there).
Problems? Making the 3 groups spread enough (could go to 4 groups if necessary). You still might see nothing but necro, skaven, and chaos depending on how you set up the groups. I'd even think that allowing coaches who want to play Ogres, Gobblins, Halfers, and (maybe) Underworld the exemption that if they want, they can only activate those teams. Let the sweetspotted Underworlders have their day!
Benefit? Well more diversity, more chances of a team getting paired as you should have more teams activating on average. There should also be a decrease in the number of sweet spotted teams, but on to #2 to fix that issue...
2) Make it impossible for skilled healthy players to be retired. No one needs to look at past player lists, the client simply makes it impossible for a healthy skilled B player to get retired.
Problems? None! Unless you are a filthy sweetspotter 
Benefits? Much fewer low TV or sweetspotting lame as @#%% garbage teams.
What do these 2 suggestions do? Well they don't change any current skills (read: keeps us CRP compliant), and they shouldn't create more work for admins or christer to redo match making. Though I don't know how easy it would be to enforce these rules in the client, so there is that part of it.
Changes to claw, PO, and DP all move the site away from the core rules, and while I don't have a huge issue with that personally, I can appreciate the concerns of those who do find those changes to be a bridge too far.
The solution we're looking for here isn't about claw, PO, or DP anyway, it's about making the Box 'better'. The only way to do that is really to correct the way that coaches look at box in terms of what teams they are going to play (and what builds). Sadly, there is little chance of persuading the 'abusers' to change their way, so just force them to change it by making everyone play more varied races (if not builds). At the worst it simply dilutes the amount of cpomb spam (or whatever other spam you object to). At the best it opens up more coaches eyes to the fun to be had in playing other kinds of teams.
3) Oh, and of course, get rid of the racial bias in the MM, that simply makes no sense what so ever |
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Espionage
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 18:00 |
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I'm joining team "ban piling on".
And then saying to all the "don't change the official rules" self appointed spokes people: we already have
In the rule book I can play with 11 jmen and have 2 million in team funds. Here I can not.
In the rule book I can have a HMP bomber who works 5 times out of 6. Here it is limited to 50% effective.
In the rulebook I can conceed at any time. Here I can not.
The whole black box concept is a house rule (a good one) so if we need a few more house rules to tweak it, that's cool.
If ban piling on is not an option, then I can also join the enforced racial diversity camp happily. |
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Wizfall
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 18:10 |
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| Verminardo wrote: | | 1) Modify the rules or don't, but if you do, change them for Ranked and Blackbox alike (maybe run a trial period in Blackbox first). Because any rules change worth implementing should serve to make the game better, not just remedy the problem with Box matchmaking, which it cannot, imho |
| spubbbba wrote: | 1. Add random TV based matching scheduler to R
2. Delete Blackbox |
| licker wrote: | Make it impossible for skilled healthy players to be retired. No one needs to look at past player lists, the client simply makes it impossible for a healthy skilled B player to get retired.
3) Oh, and of course, get rid of the racial bias in the MM, that simply makes no sense what so ever |
Easy to do and don't make more work for the admins. |
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MisterFurious
Joined: Aug 11, 2010
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| Posted:
Dec 16, 2013 - 18:25 |
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An idea I threw out way back when the client was in Beta was that when you activate a team for Black Box, you have several options that you can click:
1) I want to play a team of around the same TV as mine.
2) I want to play a team with higher TV than mine.
3) I don't care what TV my opponent is.
My reasoning for that was so that Halflings and Goblins could play and get inducements, but I think that could also work for rookie teams at low TV, as well. |
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