bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jan 28, 2015 - 18:40 |
 
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| happygrue wrote: | | So each player is unique (can't draft any of the 48 more than once), and we're to come up with a team of 11 or so? |
There is one "booster" with 48 players. The plan is that each coach opens one such "booster" and has his 1st pick, etc. (If there are 8 players, then all players would have 2 selection of each booster, 1 first round selection, and 1 second round selection.)
When the smoke clears there would be 16 players on each roster. Base case is non progression + resurrection. (Non progression is vital, while resurrection is not.)
@Koadah: Standard players are not ideal for 2 reasons:
1. Most of them are not complete package (there was clearly development in mind)
2. They are not balanced, which contradicts my assumption to use a balanced set of players. |
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Smeat
Joined: Nov 19, 2006
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Jan 28, 2015 - 19:47 |
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I understand that the players are completely custom, but how does development work? Do all players have the same skill access? How do you tell the diff? What about M skills?
Or would the League be a "locked" progression for skills during the season, what they start with is what they got, period?
& if that's the case, then there will be a VERY few "good" players, whose stat/skill mix makes sense in a non-random sort of way, and everything else is... meh, the least bad of many dubious choices. Those few players will always be in highest demand and shortest supply, so some teams will always end up on the short end of those picks. |
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Let's go A.P.E.!
(...and what exactly do you think they do with all those dead players?...) |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jan 28, 2015 - 19:53 |
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| Smeat wrote: | I understand that the players are completely custom, but how does development work? Do all players have the same skill access? How do you tell the diff? What about M skills?
Or would the League be a "locked" progression for skills during the season, what they start with is what they got, period? |
Yes, that is. No progression. No extra skill at all.
| Smeat wrote: | | & if that's the case, then there will be a VERY few "good" players, whose stat/skill mix makes sense in a non-random sort of way, and everything else is... meh, the least bad of many dubious choices. Those few players will always be in highest demand and shortest supply, so some teams will always end up on the short end of those picks. |
I guess this is the point to discuss. I tried to make sure that many variety of viable players exist. I would be very interested if you could narrow down the choices to a few. (or not.) |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jan 28, 2015 - 20:05 |
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So each team is essentially a 'human' team on which you place specific generated players. There is none of the usual BB racial fluff involved.
That's just a question, not a comment on good/bad/other, just to make it 100% clear what the goal of this project is.
I'm not sure I have time to devote to doing drafts, but I'll throw out some general comments.
Certain skills, or skill stacks are going to be insanely valuable, as are stats obviously. Unfortunately I don't think there will be much variability in what those combos actually are.
You will want +AG on as many players as possible (especially for resurrection) since +AG wins games far far more reliably than just about anything else. You will want a cpomber (if at all possible) and depending on the availability of dodge in the draft pools tackle will be heavily unnecessary. +ST is going to sound nice, but ultimately it's unlikely to provide the usual impact it provides, unless you luck out with the skill set on the +ST player (since it's also non-progression).
Certain skills are going to get a big bump in value (and some take hits) as no one will be able to naturally counter them through player development. Strip ball should be huge (unless there is a good spread of sure hands). The Dodge/Tackle ratio is another issue as is the ability (or lack thereof) to get block in general.
I think it's an interesting concept myself, I'm just not sure how you achieve balance artificially. It seems you are better served allowing for some kind of player development, even if it is just allotting a certain number of skills which can be accessed at different points in your season. Or off season, or something.
Else I would posit that the season almost ends after the draft is complete  yah yah, assuming the coaches know what they are about |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jan 28, 2015 - 20:05 |
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| bghandras wrote: |
@Koadah: Standard players are not ideal for 2 reasons:
1. Most of them are not complete package (there was clearly development in mind)
2. They are not balanced, which contradicts my assumption to use a balanced set of players. |
1. Coaches can be given skills to allocate to their team.
2. If they are balanced then the draft is less exciting IMO. The number one pick is important because you can grab the real star.
The existing players are also more familiar to coaches so there is less finkin to be done.  |
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[SL] + Official Stunty teams. Progression KO. Old & new teams welcome. 29th May! |
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ritzi
Joined: Aug 11, 2007
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Jan 28, 2015 - 20:10 |
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If you really plan on running the league i wouldn worry too much about the Balance of the Players. You can have multiple seasons and the worst Team is picking first. So if you are lucky and get a star at the first draft you are more likly to pick late in the secound. If you got some lousy Players you are more likely to pick early in the next draft.
btw. great idea! |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jan 28, 2015 - 20:16 |
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@licker:
1. For the sake of simplicity lets assume that race is nonfactor. (They could be dressed with race, but no mechanical effect.)
2. Pomb is available, but cPomb is not. I excluded mutations. So there is some value in armor.
3. Yes, there are combos, which are relevant. I agree with you fully.
4. Yes, I wonder how balanced my pool is. You can trade basically skills for stats. You can pick players with high stats and one skill, or lower stats and 3 skills.
5. Why do you think that season ends after the draft? I mean to play it. You cannot be sure what you have until you play it.
@Koadah
1. Is there 1 single star? Pleae have a look at the pool in the entry. I can see at least 6 really good ones myself, and cant pinpoint the GREAT one.
2. I agree that familiarity is a big thing. You are spot on. But I hope I am clear why I went to a different direction.
@Ritzi
It is a plan to do NFL style, so suckers pick first next season. But I want to make it as close to balance as possible to make it more interesting, and choices as close a call as hell. |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jan 28, 2015 - 21:26 |
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Well in a non-progression resurrection league the 'best' team on paper is going to stay as the 'best' team for the duration.
So, assuming that the coaching abilities are roughly equal, the team that wins the draft should have a big advantage over the course of the season. This is magnified in a set up of this style as there are no natural counters to anything as you would have when you are bringing different races (think zons and dwarfs).
Now that's not a reason not to do the league, it's not really a reason not to do anything, it's just an observation that I have.
Take an extreme example of there being no sure hands in the draft pool and only one strip ball player. The team that takes that strip ball player is going to have a huge advantage over the field because he has the one skill which simply cannot be countered. Oh, he can still clearly loose games, but he should have this one clear threat/advantage which is going to dictate the way every game he plays plays out.
Another scenario is to take a team which builds itself to be Khemri-esque (mostly +ST, low MA, low AG) vs. a team which eschews +ST for mobility. Yes, it will be interesting to see how things play out over a season, but since you're locked into your team from the beginning there is no way for a team to develop any kind of alternative during the season.
That's not really an issue with the draft pool though, that's an issue each coach would face in how they build their team, so maybe it shouldn't really apply here.
I think this sounds like a very interesting and fun idea, and I am happy that you are trying to get it to work. I'm just worried that there will wind up being too much emphasis on the draft, and that depending on the scarcity of certain skills/stats some teams are going to be essentially locked out from being competitive. Alternatively you balance the draft so finely that every team has everything and it's just like playing chess |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jan 28, 2015 - 21:35 |
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You know, thinking about it a little more I wonder about a slightly different approach.
You make a pool of 16 (lets just leave this as a 16 team league) super star players. These guys have perfect skill stacks, or multiple +stats. They get divided up to the 16 teams so that each team has it's own star, and then you do your regular draft such that each team is filling in the spots around this star.
That way you can design a cpomber (cuz mutations are cool... when they are rare), you can hand out a wardancer+stipball, a one turner, a ...
You get the picture. This 'forces' certain teams to adopt the personality of whatever skill stack their star brings, and to try and draft up complimentary players. |
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ritzi
Joined: Aug 11, 2007
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Jan 28, 2015 - 21:48 |
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As there is no development, whats about injuries? How do you replace dead Players? |
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licker
Joined: Jul 10, 2009
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Jan 28, 2015 - 21:53 |
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| ritzi wrote: | | As there is no development, whats about injuries? How do you replace dead Players? |
He has said it might be resurrection. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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Jan 28, 2015 - 22:37 |
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Very good points!
"So, assuming that the coaching abilities are roughly equal, the team that wins the draft should have a big advantage over the course of the season."
True. On the other hand advantage is kind of fluid. Assuming there will be different type of players on each roster (each 16), then you can game plan against everybody, you don't have to use the same players as starters.
I don't deny that a good draft goes a long way, this is actually the point. To emphasise a very different team building aspect of this game, which is not explored at all.
Thinking forward about season 2, there should be a mechanic to eliminate players during or after the season. (Like a random third of the roster, or something like that.) This will be important to make sure that winner of the 1st draft cannot carry over his advantage to the 2nd season.
"Take an extreme example of there being no sure hands in the draft pool and only one strip ball player."
I don't think any "resource" would be that scarce. I run a lot of pools, and skills are abundant. (If I take your example, sure hands is the favoured skill of the runner position.)
"Another scenario is to take a team which builds itself to be Khemri-esque (mostly +ST, low MA, low AG) vs. a team which eschews +ST for mobility. Yes, it will be interesting to see how things play out over a season, but since you're locked into your team from the beginning there is no way for a team to develop any kind of alternative during the season. "
Yes, I actually enjoy this team building aspect. You can do it khemri style, you can do it all agility, or you can build a roster, which has the specialists, and you game plan for each opponent. It is totally up to the coaches. I am very interested to figure out which strategies are viable.
"You make a pool of 16 (lets just leave this as a 16 team league) super star players. These guys have perfect skill stacks, or multiple +stats. They get divided up to the 16 teams so that each team has it's own star, and then you do your regular draft such that each team is filling in the spots around this star. "
This is a very sound idea. If there is single dominant way to build the roster (it is a very big IF in my book, but as I haven't tried I cannot deny), then your proposal makes sure that the starting positions are completely different. I kind of like it. I am not committed to run it with these STARs, but I am interested to see what stars should be used. (These must be balanced very carefully I think.)
"As there is no development, whats about injuries? How do you replace dead Players?"
The most simple way is to make it resurrection type. Plan B is to let them die, but then all coaches need a practice squad, and the league needs a facility to promote players from practice squad to the roster.
The decision between the 2 approach will boil down whichever is supported by the future league update. |
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