Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jan 26, 2005 - 22:11 |
 
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In unranked I started a team with 14 Players and 7 rerolls, all zombie! It's easier to pull in the positionals after (I bought a mummy after one game) and then you get some more SPP for the poor corpses to! (same principal should work for necros)
Of course the minis are more important, it's why I collect Jawas in Star Wars Mini combat |
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BlackBart
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
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Feb 16, 2005 - 01:33 |
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I guess I will be the dissenting opinion here. I honestly have not liked playing undead since 3rd edition mainly because of the change in the way Diving Tackle works, which was an essential part of ball coverage with ghouls back then. I am now a necro fan for unrelated reasons, but I generally feel they are better than undead. I'll go down each player with my basic analysis.
a) Yes mummies have ST5, BUT Golems can take general skills still, and start with Regen/Stand Firm. Which means you are 2 skills away from the ever coveted Block/Standfirm/Guard. And the fact that they can stand up and move without a GFI is nice too.
b) Wolves...First of all, there are no equivalent positionals on the undead to compare them to. These are the stars of the necros, but as mentioned they are very vulnerable. Dont expect them to ever get more than 3 skills and survive........ but so what? the basic unskilled wolf is a better player than most. And they get spp VERY easily, so training a rookie wolf up to their basic config takes only a few games. (first skill can easily be done in 1 game). They make up for their vulnerability with a very nice stat and skill mix. The MA of 8 makes them great ball runners, and they start with catch if you really feel like playing a passing game. Because of this, they develop spp easily as ball runners. Also since they have Claw/Frenzy, they are good pain dealers, and will get lots of casualties. Which both enhances your game, and nets you more spp once again. Because of their basic skill list and high MA they are VERY versatile. They can be used as runners/blitzers/passers/zone defenders with ease.
c)Wights. Well both teams have 2 of em, so no real advantage/disadvantage here although I find that I use the wights somewhat differently on my necro teams than I did on the undead teams. Some of this once again is due to rules changes between 3rd edition and LRB. Still things to remember about wights... They are NOT pain dealers, because unlike most blitzers they do not have strength skill access. They are decent ball runners, in a Non-passing game, which is how I mainly used them with undead. Now I mostly use them as ball strippers, and sometimes as passers. But they can stand in in almost any duty in a pinch.
d) Ghouls. Once again both teams have them, the undead getting 4 and necros getting 2. Ghouls are mostly seen as ball runners, starting with dodge, and a respectable MA of 7. I notice people talking about how vulnerable Wolves are, but no mention of ghouls, who have an even lower AV (7) and no regen. So dont get attached to the ghoul, they WILL die a lot. I have always used ghouls mostly as corner defenders (meaning they defend the ball runner) and as passers. Also they are very handy for providing that extra TZ for a ST advantage, especially for your frenzies.
e) Zombies. Both have em, and I love em The best thing about zombies is they are CHEAP, sometimes free Of course zombies are used almost primarily as linemen, where they don't really hold their own, but regen keeps them coming back. The best use for zombies is to tie up the other teams Big Guys. Just keep one or two of them adjacent to the other players ST5+ players, if they get crushed... so what? 30k gets you another. Zombies do not get skills quickly, often never, so just treat them as they are, cheap, expendable linemen. Also dont be afraid to do stupid things like dodges and even passing, etc, with the zombies, as long as the failure will not cost you the game. AG2 still gives you a 50/50 chance of success. Zombies are also very good for throwing the occasional block against higher strength opponents.
f) Skeletons Undead only. Skeletons are problematic. It is nice that they have MA5, and thus are a bit more mobile than zombies. But the AV7 means that mobility is often in the direction of the Cas Box. If you are playing undead Skeletons should NOT be used as linemen, but instead to provide TZ's for strength bonuses on a block, and as foulers, since the extra MA will get you to the victim without having to GFI so much. Of course they are nice and cheap too
Last of all there is star player access.
Both teams can get Luther Von Drakkenberg (an excellent Star player)
while necros also have access to Ramtut. (another excellent Star)
So in summary...
As a necro player you will be giving up
1. ST5 players
2. 2 Ghouls
3. Skeletons.
Whereas you will be gaining
1. ST4 players with general skill access.
2. 2 Wolves
3. Ramtut
I personally feel the MA8 and Claw of the wolves combined with General skill access to the whole team makes up for the loss of 1ST point and MB (which your golems can get) and 2 ghouls which die even more than wolves. And I have never really been a skeleton fan anyways.
Last bit of advice, Both team need LOTS of re-rolls, since neither have any AG4 players. This isn't too much of a problem really, since regen, and cheap linemen save you a lot of money, but the loss of a wolf, or mummy can set you back quite a bit, and although they are not too expensive, wights are a bit over priced.
Have fun!
BB (long winded SOB eh?) |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Feb 16, 2005 - 02:05 |
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But mummys have general access too  |
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Dr.Caligari
Joined: Jan 17, 2005
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Feb 16, 2005 - 02:37 |
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Yep, mummies own... hard to go with the lifeless without em... |
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BlackBart
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
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Feb 16, 2005 - 04:27 |
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I thought the last rules review removed thier general skill access, as I stated I havent played undead in some time now, mainly due to changes from 3rd edition to LRB. |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 16, 2005 - 05:46 |
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Actually its not impossible to get wolfs more than 3 skills (of course owning the only 200+ spp wolf may make me slightly biased) it just takes patience and the understanding that if you charge off down the pitch without support your going to be blocked then fouled till your not moving anymore so control of the placing of your players is your key goal and controlling the flow of the game is not as hard when your wolf blitzes any man left by himself (mightyblow is an essential doubles choice) |
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public_Bob
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
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Feb 16, 2005 - 06:17 |
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I have been coaching a necro team for a little while and after an unfortunate series of deaths (wolf and both golems) I recently started an undead team. Basically it boils down to mummies v wolves. The biggest problem with necro is that with only 2 st4 players and those 2 being the only ones with strength skill access necro tend to get slapped around when it comes down to a scuffle. Big guys smack golems around. With only 2 golems even linemen can smack them around without too much trouble. I completely agree that having frenzy and claw as starting skills makes for a killer player, but with av8 and no apoc you cannot leave them in the thick of the fight, forcing you to use your blitzes on your wolves every turn if you want some good results. Also with frenzy they are forced to follow up their blitz, putting them next to opposition, ready to take some pain next turn, or forcing you to only blitz players that are standing around by themselves (further reducing their usefulness). Mummies on the other hand can stand in the middle of the action dishing out pain every turn using your team rerolls if u need to so they don't give you turn overs like other st5 players normaly do, with access to both general and strength skills. On another note i agree that ghouls die ALOT but they are a mere 70k to replace whereas wolves set you back a hefty 130k. Anyway that is just my take on it... |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 16, 2005 - 13:51 |
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| brownrob wrote: | | is this for a tabletop league? if so... buy an undead box set and then buy 2 wolves and 2 golems and hey presto, 2 teams for th price of 1 1/2!!! |
And you can buy 2 more Mummies and a few skeletons (or convert some from the plastics, same goes for zombies) and have a Khemri squad as well.
I think Undead are the stronger team, but also the more boring. They are definately my bogey team - I've had a couple of 'mares against Undead, especially with elves of any sort - in the early stages, Undead usually have Tackle Wights and Blodge Ghouls in addition to the MB Mummies, a killer combination to rookie elves.
Necros have more style - Werewolves and Flesh Golems have so much more character than the one-dimensional Mummies. Wilhelm Chaney and Frank'n'stein were amongst my favourite freebooters from the 2nd ed days. |
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mymLaban
Joined: Apr 20, 2004
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Feb 16, 2005 - 14:18 |
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i would say necros are the most fun of the 2, mostly because of the werewolfs claw, frenzy and MA 8 and acces to ag skills they are soo sweet cool scoring machines and evil killers i mean they have both claw and catch !! to start out with what a combo  on the down side there is the low armour and no apo....wolfs die so much its amazing same goes for ghouls even worse armour and still no apo or regenerate, on the necro teams ive played in my time here on fumbbl i think most of my wolfs has been dead or ritired somewhere between skill nr 3 and 4. |
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PjPants
Joined: Jan 20, 2005
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Feb 16, 2005 - 16:48 |
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what about the khameri teams? are they worth trying? i look and see a player with pass ability and 2 agility and just wonder what the point is. i am looking to retire my vampires because i just cant handle losing with them its just too frustrating. |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Feb 16, 2005 - 18:03 |
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Khemri can indeed do quite well, just don't expect to play that many games. Very few coaches are willing to take on a full khemri team, esp at higher TR where the mummies likely all have block/guard and maybe some frenzy added in, and the skellies are all dp's. With agi 2 all around (and I mean ALL around; at least dwarves have 4 agi 3 guys), your playstyle gets pretty darn limited. I never did understand the point of an agi 2 passer; I think surehands to start would've been a MUCH better option... |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 17, 2005 - 00:24 |
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| AFK_Eagle wrote: | | I never did understand the point of an agi 2 passer; I think surehands to start would've been a MUCH better option... |
The Blitz-Ras and Thro-Ras originally had Ag 3 when the team was experimental - this was quickly recognised to be far too good on a team with 4 Mummies, and so Ag was reduced. Thro-Ras start with Sure Hands. |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Feb 17, 2005 - 12:53 |
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I ended up killing both of Aconite's wolvesn in a tournament game with my khemri.
The poor creatures are far too easy to hurt to justify their cost. |
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Dr.Caligari
Joined: Jan 17, 2005
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Feb 21, 2005 - 04:26 |
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Agreed, even though i have to admit that they have more style, and Flehs Golems minis just own, the good ole Undead are just plain better. As for khemri i haven't tried them yet. Other than bashing the other team to a pulp and blocking potential scores with your other (useless) players, what is there to it? any fun? |
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