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RogueBanshee



Joined: Jun 08, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 02:28 Reply with quote Back to top

My guys wanted to play some stunty. We set up the teams, but we cannot select them to participate in a tournament. How do you set this up?
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 06:15 Reply with quote Back to top

You cant run tournaments with stunty division teams, only league. Stunty has a no back to back game rule and teams should play a variety of opponents.

You can set up a league stunty teams group though.
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 10:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Create a teams with the link below:

https://fumbbl.com/p/createteam?op=race&league=11371

Then you can create a group, set it as a MetaGroup, apply the teams, and run tournaments.

_________________
"I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: 'Am I a dishonest player?' - for he is willing to succumb."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.
noobie2k7



Joined: Sep 28, 2012

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 11:38 Reply with quote Back to top

You completely glossed over the part he was actually asking about. He said they've all already made the teams, no no point linking him to the team creation pages :/

What you need to do is on the Home page scroll right to the bottom, there you will see a create new group button, click that Smile

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ClawPOMB don't kill players, Coaches do!
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 12:11 Reply with quote Back to top

They cannot create tournaments for the teams because they are in the Stunty division.

They need to create teams in the [L]eague division.

But I don't know what link that is that Adam posted. Is that Official [L]eague Stunty?

If they want to be able to have custom rules they will need to create their own ruleset and allow stunty teams. Then switch their group to a league and select their ruleset.

Even if they want to use Adam's ruleset, I would still rather have my own "league" than use Adam's link as that gives more flexibility in the future. i.e. Later on you can switch rulesets if you want to change something.

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Secret League Open - Brawl - Max TW 1750 April 19th
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 13:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I've rapidly made a ruleset and a League group for that.

https://fumbbl.com/p/ruleset?id=776
https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=11371

Ruleset is basically identical with ruleset #2 but without cards (I prefer removing them) and it will be kept and maintained this way. You can also make a League group for ruleset #2 to make cards available.

Group is made to let people create [L] Stunty teams easily. These teams will be shown as "League teams for Stunty League" in the team list. A group set as Metagroup can take applications of these teams and can run tournaments for them.

Later, group will get a banner and some info (tutorial) too.

_________________
"I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: 'Am I a dishonest player?' - for he is willing to succumb."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 14:10 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Even if they want to use Adam's ruleset, I would still rather have my own "league" than use Adam's link as that gives more flexibility in the future. i.e. Later on you can switch rulesets if you want to change something.


Yes you have more control over an own League but it is a little harder to set it up. With the above link, you can create teams instantly and apply them to your group. For those who just want a common Stunty based tournament play, this should be fine and enough.

I continue to make Leagues for the most common cases with declared behavior for the future. One strong reason against using anyone else's ruleset / League is because you can not predict how he will change the settings in the future. This is why I am trying to clarify and lay down how these Leagues (here; this one will be added soon) will change. This one will follow the actual Stunty division but without the cards. Maintenance will be done by me but I am looking for other maintainers. It will be only a little work of maintenance.

_________________
"I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: 'Am I a dishonest player?' - for he is willing to succumb."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 15:01 Reply with quote Back to top

SzieberthAdam wrote:
koadah wrote:
Even if they want to use Adam's ruleset, I would still rather have my own "league" than use Adam's link as that gives more flexibility in the future. i.e. Later on you can switch rulesets if you want to change something.


Yes you have more control over an own League but it is a little harder to set it up. With the above link, you can create teams instantly and apply them to your group. For those who just want a common Stunty based tournament play, this should be fine and enough.


Not much harder. They have to create a group anyway. They just need to switch the group from "meta group" to "league" and select ruleset 2.

Then they'll at least get cards and can tweak other things later if they wish.

SzieberthAdam wrote:

I continue to make Leagues for the most common cases with declared behavior for the future. One strong reason against using anyone else's ruleset / League is because you can not predict how he will change the settings in the future. This is why I am trying to clarify and lay down how these Leagues (here; this one will be added soon) will change. This one will follow the actual Stunty division but without the cards. Maintenance will be done by me but I am looking for other maintainers. It will be only a little work of maintenance.


It shouldn't be much maintenance. As you said, we don't really want them changing other than fixing mistakes. Wink

I still don't think it is clear how this whole thing works. Wink

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Secret League Open - Brawl - Max TW 1750 April 19th
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 22, 2018 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
Not much harder. They have to create a group anyway. They just need to switch the group from "meta group" to "league" and select ruleset 2.

Then they'll at least get cards and can tweak other things later if they wish.


You know that, I know that but we are in minority. Moreover, the default group type is MetaGroup and that is fine. How should someone know that he should set the Group to League and make it's ruleset to 2 (or 776 to disable cards), and then only make team via the link below the group title? I think there are very few who actually know that rulesets can be made here. As you can see, common sense people make Stunty division teams and then wonder why he or she can not run tournaments for them. The first commenter after my post was also unaware of the problem and that is not his fault. I want to make things easier for the majority, and the majority are not FUMBBL experts.

_________________
"I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: 'Am I a dishonest player?' - for he is willing to succumb."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.
SableQueen



Joined: Jan 02, 2017

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2018 - 00:40 Reply with quote Back to top

I am working with RougeBanshee to set this up. I have the ruleset part down. The Tournament part I am trying to understand. Once it is changed to League and the Ruleset is entered, is there anything else I need to do to make it accept the stunty teams in the Tournament? I have got this far, but it won't let me choose the stunty teams on starting the tournament.
In reading your post Adam are you saying that the Teams can't be a normal Stunty team? Does the Link to make the stunty team make them different than choosing stunty on creating a team?
Sorry about all the Questions, I am hoping to clarify so I can make this work. We are excitied to play our stunty teams.'Very Happy'
Thank you for all of you help
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2018 - 02:40 Reply with quote Back to top

You cannot use teams created in the Stunty division in your own tournaments.

If you have created a ruleset you can enable stunty teams on your ruleset. You then create teams from the "create team" link on your group/league home page.

Edit: Whether you use my approach or Adam's approach, you still need to create new teams.

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Secret League Open - Brawl - Max TW 1750 April 19th
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2018 - 07:29 Reply with quote Back to top

If you created a ruleset, I think you went to far. The benefit of an own ruleset is that you can set up house rules for your League, like make starting teams from 1200k gold or adding +1 to fouls, disabling a skill, etc. If you seek the default environment, then having your own ruleset has no benefit and you just possibly created some maintenance work for yourself in the future to keep your custom ruleset identical to the standard one.

Unfortunately despite my all efforts, we already overcomplicated this. You should have just click on the link in my first post, create teams and start your tournament with those. No, you can not make a tournament with your existing ones on the site.

However, as Stunty division has no restricitons about opponent choices, you can easily create your own tournament with your existing teams on pen and paper. You can track the progress in a public note or in a group info. Group info can be edited by multiple persons.

Remark for @koadah: Another benefit of a standard and common Stunty League over spawning Leagues is that the teams created for the common have a higher playability as ideally those can be played against a bigger set of teams later.

_________________
"I love him who is ashamed when the dice fall in his favour, and who then asketh: 'Am I a dishonest player?' - for he is willing to succumb."
-- Friedrich Nietzsche: Thus Spake Zarathustra, Zarathustra's Discourses, 4.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2018 - 09:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry Adam but unless things have changed recently the Stunty division does have restrictions on opponent choices. You shouldnt play in a closed group or back to back games. The 1/10 rule isnt in effect however.

The stunty division is supposed to be an open division with official tournaments.

Another headache is that the rosters are not designed to be played with the modern banning system. To make the most out of each secret weapon we gave them their own banning roll. This is supported by the client, I dont know about custom league though.

Some rosters would be distinctly unbalanced with blanket SW bans.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2018 - 12:10 Reply with quote Back to top

SzieberthAdam wrote:
...
Remark for @koadah: Another benefit of a standard and common Stunty League over spawning Leagues is that the teams created for the common have a higher playability as ideally those can be played against a bigger set of teams later.


Indeed. I know that very well being the commish of Secret League Open. Mr. Green

In that case though, for Stunty shouldn't they be using ruleset 2? Is there any problem with using ruleset 2? Maybe we need Christer to come out and clarify some of this stuff.

Your "more opponents" argument only really works if people generally know that they should use your ruleset when creating Stunty teams. Right now they probably don't.

Honestly, I don't think that there will be enough games available on gamefinder for the 'more opponents' argument to make any difference.

What we need is for teams from (at least some) different rulesets to be able to play each other. That would save a lot of grief.

Also, I believe that your ruleset does not allow cards. If you want it to be the 'official' 'Stunty in [L]eague' ruleset, I think that it should allow cards and let coaches decide whther or not they use them.

I would hope that playing across rulesets would be simpler if the rulesets had the same core rules. Which yours doesn't. Though I suppose ruleset 2 might not either.

I hope that Christer can clarify some of this.

Of course, if we can move teams between rulesets people can do whatever they like and move the team when they need to change Wink

@harvestmouse: I did say that whatever they do they will need to create new teams. In case that is still not clear.
create new teams in the [L]eague division! Smile

What is not clear to me is, If they use ruleset 2, will they get the "proper" stunty division rules that you are talking about? Would they get them with Adam's ruleset or is that hardcoded for the Stunty division only?

Edit: Using different 'leagues' is not a problem if the ruleset is set up as shared. Teams from different leagues can play against each other if they use the same ruleset. It also appears that you can later change the ruleset of the league. So even if you do not want your own ruleset now, it appears that you could switch to one later. That is something they could not do if they used your league link.

I'd need Christer to clarify that though.

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Secret League Open - Brawl - Max TW 1750 April 19th
SableQueen



Joined: Jan 02, 2017

Post   Posted: Mar 24, 2018 - 17:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you all for the clarifications. I think I got it now.
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