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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 17:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Fumbbl is more than just Ranked and Box. Since custom rosters & NAF landed, League often does as much business as B & R. Sometimes more.

If you encourage people to start at Cyanide, most of them will probably never come back.

I started as a complete beginner and began with two wins and two defeats. I didn't begin 145 Club to teach people how to play. I started it because I thought it was stupid entering white belts in black belt tournaments.

The smaller the user base, the longer it takes to get a game. The worse the matchup you'll have to accept to get a game. The fewer the donations to keep the servers running etc.

It may not be as easy as it was in the old days, but even a complete beginner can learn the game on Fumbbl. But it will be easier if they are told how. Just jumping into Ranked probably won't do it.

When you begin big games there will be thousands of rookies to play against you when you join. It is going to be a shock to people when here they get nothing but black belts.

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MonkeyMan576



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 17:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I think there should be a ranked like division for players with 200 matches or less.
Chainsaw



Joined: Aug 31, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 17:48 Reply with quote Back to top

There is. There's loads of them. Look into [L] and the various leagues.

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MonkeyMan576



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 18:11 Reply with quote Back to top

that's leagues. I mean one that is less inclusive.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 18:22 Reply with quote Back to top

You can make a league for 2 people if you like - that's less inclusive...but I don't see the relation to the topic really.

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MonkeyMan576



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 18:24 Reply with quote Back to top

I ment more inclusive, that you can just click on like ranked or blackbox.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 18:41 Reply with quote Back to top

We're coming slowly around to "we need a functioning Academy."

Maybe a new context for the 145 Club, that's less confusing, built on the Academy.

Like, if you click on [A] when you build a new team, and you have more than 50 wins (or even 2W+T≥100), you get Goblins, Halflings, Ogres, or custom racial rosters that only include linos and Loner bigs (sorry, no Chaos Renegades).

This would go swimmingly with my ceterum censeo that we need a chat window in gamefinder.

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.


Last edited by JackassRampant on Nov 13, 2018 - 18:46; edited 1 time in total
MonkeyMan576



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 18:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe turn 145 into a full fledged division.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 18:46 Reply with quote Back to top

So pretty much exactly like the Academy division, which was shutdown due to low traffic?

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 18:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Rbthma wrote:
So pretty much exactly like the Academy division, which was shutdown due to low traffic?
Yes. I learned trying to do the mentor program thing that I no longer have the mental capacity to manage a program that might help bring in new coaches, but I have some ideas how it can be done successfully if somebody wants to do most of the labor and take most of the credit. This is one of those things where success tends to reinforce itself.

See above for some edits. I didn't expect such rapid response. I mentioned a gamefinder chat window as potentially a big deal, and I brought up a way to incorporate 145-style rules and leagues into an Academy framework.

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

My response though I didn't quote him was to Monkeyman - splitting the user base is something that was tried and didn't work as the numbers couldn't support it, so just doubtful that it would be tried again.

All these other ideas - I dunno. I feel like we've argued for/against these before in some other thread

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 19:16 Reply with quote Back to top

perhaps a channel in discord for new and 140s coaches to advertise their teams to each other and schedule a day/time to play?

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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 21:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe a chat window in gamefinder is the simplest retention fix. I can see how it might get misused by silver-tongued devils, but I also see how it might build a little more community awareness.

I think a more ground-up sense of the tactical basics would also be a good thing. I advocated this 10-15 years ago, and a few of the concepts I came up with either stuck in the community (some spatial terminology) or didn't stick but have proven useful to me in practice, but I didn't really have the broader context to separate the wheat from the chaff. I would be happy to play a part in revisiting it, perhaps with a new endeavor or in tandem with Wreckage in a cleanup of 1000 Losses, but however it works out, a more friendly and fundamental spatial terminology could help jump-start eager new coaches who these days tend to just get reamed and go home.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 21:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
perhaps a channel in discord for new and 140s coaches to advertise their teams to each other and schedule a day/time to play?
This exists. It gets some action. It's better than nothing. But Discord is another failure point, so it's not optimal. I mean, you yourself took awhile to get on the NBFL channel, and you're an active and enthusiastic league member.

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What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
razmus



Joined: Jun 23, 2017

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 21:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Just to spitball, going for a few quick iterative steps, hopefully in the right direction.

(1) remove the "This division is a good starting place for new coaches" from the description on 'Ranked' when building a new team.

(2) replace the line from (1) with a 'New to FUMBBL? ReadMeFirst' link which maybe points back to an abbreviated version of the Quick Start guide? (https://fumbbl.com/help:CRP) (which probably needs to be updated because it still references the Academy? (And that's the 2018 guide presented to folks at the top of the FUMBBL help page.) I'll be happy to help, but fear I'm not exactly an authoritative source for information.)
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