50 coaches online • Server time: 16:35
Index Search Usergroups Profile
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post Two pro elf catchers...goto Post 4x4 Recruitinggoto Post Be a Demon or Angel?...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
FinnDiesel



Joined: Mar 07, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 21:58 Reply with quote Back to top

A revamp of Academy would look nice - but not taking experience of ever using it

_________________
Join the Chaos Realm League Today!

Stunty Leeg Metagroup!!
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 23:07 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
This exists. It gets some action. It's better than nothing. But Discord is another failure point, so it's not optimal. I mean, you yourself took awhile to get on the NBFL channel, and you're an active and enthusiastic league member.


I agree that it would be better if the chat was more integrated into the website. I would think it should be possible, given modern web technology (although, obviously it implies work for Big C). Having to download and use a separate app creates an extra hurdle to be a part of the community.

I also don't agree that it is worth having Academy as a separate division, as it was proven in the past that the numbers don't support it, and there isn't anything that could be done in there that can't be done just as easily in [L]. So, my vote would be to point new coaches to [L] and the 145 Club as the best places to get started.

It would also be good if the gamefinder only showed matchups for [L] teams in the same ruleset though, as that is something else that can easily trip up new coaches. Again though, it's nothing new.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
FinnDiesel



Joined: Mar 07, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 23:26 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
JackassRampant wrote:
This exists. It gets some action. It's better than nothing. But Discord is another failure point, so it's not optimal. I mean, you yourself took awhile to get on the NBFL channel, and you're an active and enthusiastic league member.


I agree that it would be better if the chat was more integrated into the website. I would think it should be possible, given modern web technology (although, obviously it implies work for Big C). Having to download and use a separate app creates an extra hurdle to be a part of the community.

I also don't agree that it is worth having Academy as a separate division, as it was proven in the past that the numbers don't support it, and there isn't anything that could be done in there that can't be done just as easily in [L]. So, my vote would be to point new coaches to [L] and the 145 Club as the best places to get started.

It would also be good if the gamefinder only showed matchups for [L] teams in the same ruleset though, as that is something else that can easily trip up new coaches. Again though, it's nothing new.
Yeah I get my league team with secret league made that mistake when I got started

_________________
Join the Chaos Realm League Today!

Stunty Leeg Metagroup!!
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 13, 2018 - 23:40 Reply with quote Back to top

@FinnDiesel: your pic, I just wanted to say that Against the Cult of the Reptile God was probably the coolest low-level 1e module (though it does come off a little challenging for a 1st level party; I tend to see it as a level 2-3 adventure). In fact, it would easily fit into my top 5 AD&D modules, right up there with the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
Rbthma



Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 14, 2018 - 01:07 Reply with quote Back to top

razmus wrote:
Just to spitball, going for a few quick iterative steps, hopefully in the right direction.

(1) remove the "This division is a good starting place for new coaches" from the description on 'Ranked' when building a new team.

(2) replace the line from (1) with a 'New to FUMBBL? ReadMeFirst' link which maybe points back to an abbreviated version of the Quick Start guide? (https://fumbbl.com/help:CRP) (which probably needs to be updated because it still references the Academy? (And that's the 2018 guide presented to folks at the top of the FUMBBL help page.) I'll be happy to help, but fear I'm not exactly an authoritative source for information.)


I think you're on the right track there razmus, if it's the wiki that can be updated by any coach I'd go ahead and do it. It was made that way for us to update I'm sure...I have not looked at it in a bit though, so haven't noticed if it's a bit out of date.

_________________
Image
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 14, 2018 - 01:36 Reply with quote Back to top

145 is very good, and the work done there by organisers/advisors.
I don't recall what info there is in the welcome email. I thought one had been sorted out a couple of years ago.
But anyway, an issue with 145 is people need to look for the information. If new players would be directed to the beginner's league/environment when they create their first team that could help.. If there is enough people for 145, how is there not enough people for Academy division? Was it culled too easily? No need for a minimum surely.
Alternatively have League and 145 clearly labelled on the intro/create team. Perhaps when first league team is created it would be great if there was an automatic option to enroll in 145. Perhaps tricky to program.

It is a fair comment that people who have never played BB would have a very hard time here. But there must be more potential for people who have just played several TT or Cyanide games and at least already got some basics of the game.

_________________
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 14, 2018 - 10:57 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
If there is enough people for 145, how is there not enough people for Academy division?


145 Club is a league, not a division. People don't expect to play as many games as they would in an open division like R & B.

145 Club is (or was) something people would do as well as playing R & B.

145 Club could make a push towards playing more "open" games outside of their leagues. A bit like Secret League Open. But the question would still remain, how long would it take to get a game?

I would expect that new coaches would expect to get a game fairly quickly or they may consider the site dead.

I think the main thing is making sure that people know that 145 Club exists when they join the site. Encourage people to join it but don't expect them to play all their games there.

Non-rookies were probably deterred from playing in [A] because their teams could not progress or play in tournaments. They would also have to create yet another team. Automatic team creation would probably help there.

_________________
Image
[SL] Rookie Rumble - Always recruiting - Brand new TV1000 teams only!


Last edited by koadah on Nov 14, 2018 - 15:33; edited 1 time in total
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 14, 2018 - 13:43 Reply with quote Back to top

How many active 145 coaches are there at a time, generally? Right now (well into Aussie hours, morning in NA, after lunch in Europe), the Discord Channel has 2 admins, 32 online, and 250 offline, but not all of those are active. Plus, some of those are not 145 coaches (like, the "32 online" includes me), and I'm not going to try to figure out how many, so that's not useful. Maybe a proactive scheduler of some sort, rather than just a matchmaking channel? Not sure what it would look like, but my initial vision is a schedule of availability that has to be actively updated on maybe a monthly basis (to filter out dropouts and graduates, without being so frequent as to discourage maintenance).

_________________
What is Nuffle's tree? Risk its trunk, space the branches. Touchdowns are its fruit.
What is Nuffle's lawn? Inches, squares, and Tackle Zones; reddened blades of grass.
FinnDiesel



Joined: Mar 07, 2018

Post   Posted: Nov 14, 2018 - 16:44 Reply with quote Back to top

@JackassRampant I really enjoyed it running with friends who were trying d&d for the first time Smile made them second level as I noticed the people were quite tuff especially in the temple

_________________
Join the Chaos Realm League Today!

Stunty Leeg Metagroup!!
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2018 - 08:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Unless Christer has had a change of heart; opening a new division {albeit one that used to exist} isn't going to happen. Academy was from a time where FUMBBL had far less online gaming rivals and the site had a much larger userbase. Now, you would need a good reason for diluting the divisional playerbase.

However the plan was to open a 'kind of' division. Where there were high/medium/low roster build examples for each team and coaches could use them with more experienced coaches to learn different aspects of the game. I think if Academy was to be redone this is the way to go; rather than the old style Academy that we used to have. One coach {sorry to say I forget who} did an awful lot of ground work on the roster design for such a division. However the site coding needed would be immense. However with custom league gaming where it is now.....possibly this could be undertaken by part of the community.

One thing however that could be done and does work to some degree; is to have a 145 division in long standing leagues and meta-groups. Run a division for newer coaches to play in your league. When I was a 145 club admin I used to advertised my leagues on the 145 channel for another option for them to join. The only downside with this is the turnover of coaches and coaches not completing their games is high. However if you ran a 145 division in your existing league you could liaise with the 145 admins to help with integration.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2018 - 08:53 Reply with quote Back to top

harvestmouse wrote:

However the plan was to open a 'kind of' division. Where there were high/medium/low roster build examples for each team and coaches could use them with more experienced coaches to learn different aspects of the game. I think if Academy was to be redone this is the way to go; rather than the old style Academy that we used to have. One coach {sorry to say I forget who} did an awful lot of ground work on the roster design for such a division. However the site coding needed would be immense. However with custom league gaming where it is now.....possibly this could be undertaken by part of the community.


That sounds really interesting. Does anyone have any idea where the rosters are?

I don't really like doing this as part of custom rosters. That basically means a roster per team. It is messy.
The teams would be segregated from regular teams. Due to progression issues, teams would be segregated from teams of different levels.

I would be interested in creating teams if there was an API and such a thing were allowed.
High/medium/low may be a lot of coding, but whether it is "immense" probably depends on the perceived benefit.


harvestmouse wrote:

One thing however that could be done and does work to some degree; is to have a 145 division in long standing leagues and meta-groups. Run a division for newer coaches to play in your league. When I was a 145 club admin I used to advertised my leagues on the 145 channel for another option for them to join. The only downside with this is the turnover of coaches and coaches not completing their games is high. However if you ran a 145 division in your existing league you could liaise with the 145 admins to help with integration.


I think that this runs into the same main problem with 145 Club. i.e. people quit before they even realise such a thing exists.

_________________
Image
[SL] Rookie Rumble - Always recruiting - Brand new TV1000 teams only!
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2018 - 14:07 Reply with quote Back to top

The userbase is clearly too small for more divisions.
The best course of action would be deleting Ranked and allowing Black Box only for competitive play but it won't happen.
To mentor new coaches League division is perfect, no need to create Academy division.
Automatic matchmaking is, on average, more friendly to new coaches than being picked in Ranked.
Will some hard matches happen? Sure, but it's part of the learning process and without cpomb and only one coach currently minmaxing in Box there should not be too many issues for new coaches.
If all the new coaches were sent to the Black Box finding an opponent of similar level would be more likely.

_________________
Please vote the Diving Catch and Break Tackle/Diving Tackle bug reports, thanks!
PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2018 - 16:22 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:

The best course of action would be deleting Ranked and allowing Black Box only for competitive play but it won't happen.


???

That has all ready happened. Most of the Majors and all the minors are now R/B combined format. Which is most likely only 10-15% of the active coaches, that might even be a high %.

Thus the competitive tournaments are now combined R/B events for the coaches who want to play in them.

The old discussion of R/B has gone by the wayside when it comes to the competitive tournament scene on FUMBBL in those DIVS.

Standard ho hum R/B is still the same if you are just looking for a game.

I think it has been proven now over time that there is no difference between R/B teams when it comes to competitive tournaments when they go head to head.


Now on the issue of the 145 club and all that. Iam old school and my theory is "new" coaches will sink or swim on their own. FUMBBL can do everything in its power to make the learning curve easier but at the end of the day it is up to that "new" coach to either take the offer of help or not.

_________________
Comish of the: Image
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2018 - 18:54 Reply with quote Back to top

For competitive play I mean: matches that affect CR and played with evenly matched teams (small TV difference, hence the need of using the Box scheduler) without picking and avoiding opponents.
Major games quite often are between teams with huge TV difference and built in different environments, these 2 factors are sources of unbalance.

_________________
Please vote the Diving Catch and Break Tackle/Diving Tackle bug reports, thanks!
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 15, 2018 - 19:47 Reply with quote Back to top

If you like Box, play in the Box.
If you don't like Ranked, don't play in it.

_________________
Image
[SL] Rookie Rumble - Always recruiting - Brand new TV1000 teams only!
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic