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Poll
What do you take to smash the rats?
Helmut & a bribe
38%
 38%  [ 5 ]
Dirty Player lineman & a bribe
46%
 46%  [ 6 ]
4 dirty tricks (one of which is custard PIE)
15%
 15%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 13


MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2019 - 18:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Saw somebody ask on Facebook:

Quote:
So I’m playing humans my opponent is skaven
His tv is 1470 my is 1300 he gonna have a journeyman which should brin him to 1520 I believe give me 220


Now, there's assumptions we can make here: let's assume the human team has 4 blitzers already, and no Tackle, just some Guard and Mighty Blow, and there's no Rat Ogre or any Claw on the Skaven team (so there's not much chance of the Humans getting battered off the pitch). If the Skaven have a journeyman then they only bring a total of 11 rats to the pitch, so they have no bench to rely on. What do you choose?

With 220 TV, my thought is DP + a bribe - comparing this against Helmut:

As it's Skaven, if you put Helmut on the pitch, you'll get 1-turned and have to use the bribe straight away. Now you're 1-0 down and probably only have 7 turns to use Helmut, because you need to equalise before the end of the half. (Or it's worse than that, because you received and got blitzed...

Given 7 turns, Helmut will successfully blitz 5 times (at least once that saw will kick back, and best case it doesn't break his armour)

So 5 chainsaws on gutter runners (if he can reach them) with a 5/6 chance of armour break, 41% chance of removing the player) gets about 1.7 gutters off the pitch (if Helmut can reach one every turn, and that's questionable, given sensible screening by the other coach)

Alternately, you use a DP lineman. You get 3d blocks on gutter runners because you're using 2 assists, and the runners don't have wrestle or block, so let's assume you can get the gutter on the floor, and then use a foul with 3 assists.

https://bbtactics.com/dirty-player/ tells us in eight turns, we'll remove 4.16 players with 2 humans sent off (and we have the bribe, so on average that's 4 removals and then lose the dirty player after his 4th removal)

Of course, while you're mucking about taking rats off the pitch, they've run past and scored a few more times, so this doesn't seem like the greatest of strategies, but do I have my maths correct if all I want to do is hurt the other team?[/list]

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Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2019 - 18:50 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree the dp is probably better, but i disagree with the overall analysis. Any sw player is bad against a team that scores as fast as skaven, true, but the dp can be very useful. You attack their offense as usual while fouling any downed players relentlessly, forcing the rats to score quickly. Then you get the chance for a regular 2-1 grind. Sure its not that easy with humans, but if the dp does his job you’ll have the numbers advantage to make it work.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2019 - 19:22 Reply with quote Back to top

MrCushtie wrote:
Given 7 turns, Helmut will successfully blitz 5 times (at least once that saw will kick back, and best case it doesn't break his armour)


How did you get that number?

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Weresquid



Joined: Mar 25, 2016

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2019 - 20:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Makes sense, on average it will kick back once, causing a stun thus removing another turn. But that is very fuzzy math, and ignores the possibility of him gettin knocked down by the opponent. That’s hard to avoid if you’re blitzing with him all the time.
MrCushtie



Joined: Aug 10, 2018

Post   Posted: Jun 12, 2019 - 05:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Ah - good point. I hadn't thought about Helmut getting blitzed. But that only makes him worse value as he'll not be hitting rats as much as if he was upright

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jun 12, 2019 - 14:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Karla von Kill is 220k, might be an alternative to use all the inducements' gold.
Otherwise 4 Dirty Tricks (Greased Shoes is a nice 1TTD counter).
A Wizard would be great but I don't know if he's available.

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delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Jun 12, 2019 - 14:38 Reply with quote Back to top

The other thing to remember is that the rats may score before Helmut has 7 turns.

You would really be hoping to be receiving. Otherwise if the rats get a Swifty on you, Helmut looses.

You could always go fireball, even if you loose you will get something a little like KFC in return.
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