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Carnis



Joined: Feb 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2019 - 00:07 Reply with quote Back to top

boruppeter wrote:
Carnis wrote:
Fouling is a viable & TV efficient strategy.


Quote:
Your Dirty Player & Sneaky git is your neurosurgeon - rarely needed, but helpful when facing with a critical spinal injury.

There you have it - yes, on the rare occasion that you need a Dirty Player & Sneaky Git it's indeed helpful, but the +50 TV for Dirty Player & Sneaky Git not only rarely inflate your TV, but always... It's not TV efficient to bloat it with things you rarely need instead of things you always (or at least most of the time) need...

Quote:
(...) for instance (...) a cage + 2 players gives 5 assists that is AV2 versus an AV7 player, effectively that is a 35/36 of breaking armor before dirty player.

I repeat: good positioning is paramount for winning games, especially in a competitive environment, and using more than half your team just to get a ~ 2% better chance that the opposing player is removed than that your own player is removed is not sound strategy (on very rare circumstances it's definitely worth it, but - as these circumstances are rare and the TV always goes up, not TV efficient).

I submit that:

1) In the hospital that I work in we need a team of neurosurgeons every day, in a similar vein you can build a blood bowl team that needs a fouler every day (most of my teams do not).

2) There are multiple situations in blood bowl, where there is no opportunity cost at all for fouling position wise. For example:
a Ball out of reach deep, first turn of defence, slow opponent (like orcs).
b Own offence, prone player on the ground, surround with cage & enjoy.

3) Not entirely relevant, but I am actually advocating a form of non-committal fouling, the AV0-2 was just an example. Getting opponent AV to 7 takes one player, and 0 compromise in position (until your fouler is sent off).

4) I win blood bowl games sometimes on a blue moon .. So maybe I'm not entirely clueless?
fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2019 - 00:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Under BB2016, DP fouling was the deadliest action in BB. Now that PO is back (sort of), that's no longer true (except in extreme gang-foul cases). Bit surprised fouling hasn't seen a resurgence.

How bout SG: player may foul as a Move Action? Game on. Smile
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2019 - 12:50 Reply with quote Back to top

There are a number of players for whom the most efficient pick on 6spp is dirty player.

They may be slow, lack S access, be cheap, and be a poor use of equity as a primary blitzer or blocker. All of this points to Dirty Player being a prime skill pick.

If a hobgoblin, zombie or another 40k player with dp swaps himself for even a rookie longbeard, you have come out ahead, that is *tv efficient*. An elf doing the same to a guard/mb or guard/sf or even an diving tackle dwarf would also be absolutely efficient, especially so given the effect removing a single dwarf can have in an elves vs dwarves game.


But simply put, to dismiss fouling so readily, you completely underestimate the effect of attrition in a game. You disregard that fouling is a method to remove high SPP players for almost any team, and there is little an opponent can do to stop it aside from changing their play to the point where you can control their movement, or hoping the referee catches you.

This disingenuous, assumed, situation where one cannot foul safely (seriously? there are numerous occasions in every game where on can setup an essentially free foul for zero positional cost) points more to a lesser ability to strategically plan fouls than any actual downside to fouling.

It is absolutely a key part of high level play to involve fouling in your strategy. You will find numerous discussions on when and where to foul, and how imperative it is to have the tools (DP) to do it. To dismiss it out of hand as inefficient for every race points to poor assessment or perhaps a coach with tunnelvision who solely uses dwarves.

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PainState



Joined: Apr 04, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2019 - 15:55 Reply with quote Back to top

The Boz thinks this is the dumbest thread he has read in years. DP fouling is always the way to go to win games.

Just stupid.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2019 - 16:57 Reply with quote Back to top

AD is right. Many coaches just plain stink. We're part-time scrubs who play for fun and consider winning to be a bonus rather than a goal. Mr. Green

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2019 - 21:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Sometimes you may say that no sending off and no armour break is worse than neutral. As you have moved players to different positions than if not fouling. Especially if you are using skill slots.
On the other hand simply doing a foul and then making the opponent worry that you may do more fouls in the future (especially with DP) can have quite the psychological effect.

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Nov 19, 2019 - 23:17 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
AD is right. Many coaches just plain stink. We're part-time scrubs who play for fun and consider winning to be a bonus rather than a goal. Mr. Green


That is pretty far from what I said, do you have anything to contribute or is it just going to be twisting other's words with vapid trolling as normal?

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