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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2019 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

sounds good to me. ogres needed some lovin

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2019 - 23:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I find this buff really elegant. It's not going to take away the "3+ boneheads turn" problem, or any other major issues with coaching ogres, but at least it's going to give you some easier matchups in League/open play environments. Giving away less inducements, receiving more, it's all good.


In Blackbox, 200k less in TV while still retaining your herd of disposable linos means less tackle, less AG freaks that can waltz through your screens, less claw, in short less everything that hurts the team's durability.
The scheduler might have some problems with it. A rookie ogre team that spends 120-160k in gnoblars is dangerously low in TV under the new rules, and might be completely unable to get a first game. We might have to finally see some fix for the <900k TV teams, maybe removing the lower TV limits for matchups between teams under 1000TV altogether?

In Resurrection tournaments, it's going to cause a lot of debate.
Option 1, your team is bought with the allotted amount of cash spent on anything but runts, and the runts come for free on top of that, up to 16 players. Or, slightly different, you get a maximum number of runts/gnoblars you can take on top of that.
Option 2, your team is bought with the allotted amount of cash, including runts, and then you get inducements for the cost of the runts (probably pre-determined, and not decided game by game - do ogres get the fling frenzy beers?)

In either case, I can see a lot of Scrappas and maybe Nobblas making an appearance on ogre teams.
PeteW



Joined: Aug 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 00:14 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm with Java - how will the NAF treat Disposable players?

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 00:47 Reply with quote Back to top

well of course no official word until Nov 2020, but Purplegoo's instant response, on the podcast Discord sub-channel, was no change for NAF. NAF tournaments do not use TV to determine inducements, so gnobs having no TV has no impact.

After all with tiering some teams face each other in NAF with one 100TV bigger than the other (this weekend i go to a tourney with 4 tiers, tier one get 1100 and 4 normal skills, tier 4 get 1100 and 6 normals 2 doubles, so will be 100TV bigger and yet cede no game by game inducements)

Bu ti does seem a little odd. Halflings still get cheaper chef in NAF, Goblins still get cheaper bribes, Ogres do not get free of TV gnobs (effectively)

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ben_awesome



Joined: May 11, 2016

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 01:30 Reply with quote Back to top

interesting
GnoblarBezer



Joined: Mar 01, 2017

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 02:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm loving the disposable trait! Would have liked to see some gnoblar posistionals though

0-2 Gnoblar Catcher with catch for an extra 10k for example
0-2 Gnoblar Git with sneaky git for an extra 10k even though SG is awful Razz

The Runt Punter should at least still keep Throw Team mate and would have liked to see kick on them too but im not overly keen on Kick Team Mate but I guess its a new skill they want in the game.

I would rather have had a Strong Arm Pitcher position.

Also need to wait and see, are Ogres now going 0-5 with an extra runt punter? Is the runt punter the same cost as a normal Ogre? I would assume so.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 03:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Mush wrote:
I'm curious what were you hoping for?

Gobbos back instead of snots/gnoblars, or removal of titchy skill, or removal of bonehead(perhaps on positional) , maybe more kickers, ideally general access on normal for some positional Ogres... but at least less tv on snots help. So now a one skill snot for 20tv is decent value..
You still need to pay up to replace the snots on top of pricey Ogres, but at least facing a slightly less strong opponent will mean a bit more chance of survival.
Not sure if it will affect resurrection tabletop teams, as they don’t usually tv match inducements. I may be wrong.

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 03:58 Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
well of course no official word until Nov 2020, but Purplegoo's instant response, on the podcast Discord sub-channel, was no change for NAF. NAF tournaments do not use TV to determine inducements, so gnobs having no TV has no impact.
....
Bu ti does seem a little odd. Halflings still get cheaper chef in NAF, Goblins still get cheaper bribes, Ogres do not get free of TV gnobs (effectively)

Hopefully they can work around it to buff them in naf too.
Having said that somehow Ogres have twice won tournaments in Calgary. With different coaches.

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Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 06:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Is it clear whether you can both kick and throw a snotling in the same turn?
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 07:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Just so I'm not taken out of context, the wording of the skill isn't out yet, so I have no firm opinion on how this might affect NAF tournaments.

However, if 'Disposable' works as we think it does (you have to pay 20 k for a Gnoblar but it then doesn't affect your TV), this would have no effect on the resurrection tournament format, as it has no 'inducement phase' to speak of. Most tournament rulesets are 'Spend (e.g.) 1.1 million on your team, then have 6 skills'. You are still spending money on players, that your TV is then lower than other teams spending the same amount is immaterial. We have lots of tournaments where Wood Elfs get to spend an amount and then Nurgle get to spend an amount + more, and the Wood Elfs don't then get inducements when they play. This looks to be exactly the same thing. So, this would not be us ignoring a rule, it would be the same as the way Nurgle's Rot is treated. It's there, it just isn't applicable.

Of course, Ogres get all sorts of bonuses all over the NAF world for being rubbish. I'm sure that will continue, and actually, most of them are better than the impact Disposable would have already, so I'm not sure TOs will want to reward Ogres twice for being crap. At the next tournament I'm going to, for instance, Ogres receive 200 k more with which to build their team and double the skill allocation of tier one teams. You wouldn't want them also having the affect of Disposable on top of that enormous buff, even if it did apply?

And yes, Nov. 2020 is when a firm NAF ruling will be made, as part of the Annual Review process. But if Disposable causes a lot of confusion, I'm sure we'll look to ease that with some words. Assuming the skill doesn't have a funky wording, those words will be similar to the above.

In a league, Disposable looks like it'll be good for a cheaper end star player or so every game. So Ogres will work much as Goblins do. So a bit of fun, a buff, but nothing outrageous, Ogres will still suck, but they'll suck with more toys. Thumbs up from me!

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 08:06 Reply with quote Back to top

So an all gnoblar team has 0 tv!

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Roto



Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 08:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
So an all gnoblar team has 0 tv!


The inducements will be glorious.

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Strider84



Joined: Jun 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 08:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Anything TV-related doesn't buff the NAF tournaments anyways because the tiers already overwrite any TV. I also think ogres are fine as they are, if you really want to buff them you can allow them more gold, doubles and stacking skills.
For a league setting, this is absolutely awesome. you basically need to fill up with snots anyways, but getting that TV back means some nice bomber action early on or an extra reroll. I personally would have liked to see the RR cost reduced (which would have impacted the NAF tourneys as well) but this is still great for league play and has a similar effect.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 08:48 Reply with quote Back to top

GnoblarBezer wrote:
.

Also need to wait and see, are Ogres now going 0-5 with an extra runt punter? Is the runt punter the same cost as a normal Ogre? I would assume so.


Ogres are 0-5
Runt punter is 0-1 150k and has SP access

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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Dec 06, 2019 - 08:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Frylen wrote:
Is it clear whether you can both kick and throw a snotling in the same turn?


Yes you can. TTM uses a pass action. KTM uses a blitz action

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