Irgy
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
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 Posted:
Dec 28, 2007 - 06:00 |
 
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I stole this idea off a game run on boardgamegeek, it seemed like such a cool idea I wanted to do it myself.
The rules might change a bit once I've written the program to manage it and had a bit of an experiment around.
The game will start with the first vision at 3am Monday morning bb time. Please get your vision target in before then or you will get a random one chosen (which is no great loss mind you...)
The Idea
It's a basic game of Werewolf, but the roles aren't determined at the start. Instead, they're in a state of quantum uncertainty, and at any given time each player just has a certain probability of having each of the roles.
All players who could still be the seer get a seer vision each night, and similarly multiple players may order a werewolf attack each night. The visions are only true if that player turns out to be the seer, and the attacks only occur if they turn out to be the dominant werewolf.
When a player is voted off, their death then causes the quantum wave function to collapse and determine their role precisely. As the game progresses this will make certain players more and more likely to have each role until at the end each player has just one possible role.
The winners are those who finish the game (alive or dead) on the winning team of either good or evil. The game ends either when all the wolves are dead, or when the wolves have parity as well as it being completely determined who they are.
The Rules
The game will run like a fairly normal werewolf games. The roles will be
* 1 Seer
* Some Wolves. There will be an alpha wolf, a beta wolf etc. The exact number of wolves will be decided when the game starts, depending on the number of players.
* The rest villiagers.
Voting
Each day, the players vote on who to burn. The player with the most votes is killed, and their exact role is completely determined. Note that this may have flow on effects of determining other roles and causing other players to die. The players are told only whether the burned player was good or evil.
The voting deadline will be 9pm fumbbl time
Votes count only up until the deadline. The burning won't officially occur until an hour later, so the player who will burn is free to speak their mind until then.
Although dead players cannot vote, votes from quantum ghosts (players who's fate is still undetermined when the votes are counted but later turn out to have been killed earlier) still count.
In the case of a tie, there will be no multiple burnings. Votes will be discounted starting from the most recent until a clear winner is found. The algorithm for this is:
1. List the players on the most votes.
2. Discount the most recent vote.
3. If this increases the vote count for a player on the list, then they are the winner.
4. Otherwise, if this decreses the vote count for a player, remove them from the list.
5. If there is only one player left on the list, they are the winner. Otherwise, return to step 2.
Wolves
Each night starting from night 1, the dominant werewolf makes a kill. The dominant werewolf is the alpha wolf until the alpha wolf dies, at which point the dominant wolf becomes the beta wolf - and so on. This will occur after the burning but before the seer's vision.
This means that each player who could be the dominant wolf sends a kill target. As soon as every possible dominant wolf has chosen at some point to kill a particular player, that player dies.
Please send your kill target as a pm to me with the subject:
"Kill [player]"
If no valid target is received a random target will be chosen.
The wolf kills will be due at 12 midnight
Seer
Starting from night 0, the seer will receive one vision each night of a player of their choice as either good or evil. After night 0, this will occur after the werewolf killing.
This means that each player who could be the seer must send a target and will receive a vision, but the vision is only accurate if they are really the seer.
Please send your seer messages to me as a pm with the subject:
"Vision: [player]"
This may be sent at any time, and the most recent message will be used. If no valid vision target is received a random player will be chosen. Players may opt to receive no vision, but they must explicitly send a message with the subject:
"No Vision"
The vision targets will be due at 3am. Feel free to send them early though.
Role Probabilities
Each morning, after the seer visions are returned, the state of the probability table is given for all to see. This will look something like:
Good Evil Dead
Player 1 25% 75% 5%
Player 2 95% 5% 80%
Player 3 100% 0% 100%
Player 4 90% 10% 0%
Player 5 90% 10% 10%
Player 6 100% 0% 100%
Player 7 0% 100% 100%
Players will be told which player number they are (e.g. Bob is told he is "Player 4") by pm at the start of the game, but do not know which numbers the other players are. This means the players know their own chances of being evil, and have information on how well determined the roles are each day, but not who the other probabilities belong to.
Players are not always told when roles they may have had are eliminated, but if at any stage there is only one role a player can possibly have they will be told of this role by pm.
Communication
Initially, all players may only communicate through the forum. Players can post until they are confirmed dead.
As soon as more than one player is 100% evil, they will all be told who they are and may then communicate freely by pm.
The Mechanics
This is how the game will work, for those who are interested.
I will initially generate a table of every possible subgame (where subgame means an assignment of roles). I may decide to randomly eliminate a percentage of subgames at the start - I'll experiment around a bit and see what works best.
As each action comes in, I will eliminate all subgames which have become impossible as a result. Actions can eliminate subgames a number of ways:
* Each time a player receives a seer vision, every subgame in which they are the seer and their target's role does not match their vision is eliminated
* When a player dies for any reason, their exact role is fixed, and subgames where they do not have that role are eliminated.
* When a player is voted off, any game where they would have been killed earlier is eliminated. In particular this means that as soon as someone a player x has attacked is voted off, player x can no longer be the dominant werewolf.
* If a player attacks another player, any subgame in which the attacker is the dominant wolf and the target is also a wolf is elimanated (as wolves cannot attack other wolves). If a player is a wolf but not the dominant wolf in a subgame then their attack orders have no effect and do not eliminate subgames.
I've written a program to manage all of this for me. After the game is finished I'll post it here just in case someone else wants to try it out.
Each vision and attack order will be put in separately, and in random order. After every order it will calculate the new probabilities for each player and each role. The results of one action may in theory cause a wavefunction collapse that invalidates another action, and this will be handled on a case by case basis (generally it will mean giving a new random order for that player).
I've discovered it's possible (although unlikely) for the game to be over without it being determined who the winners are. For example, there could be two players left, and one of them is a wolf who has already killed the other player, but it could be either player. In this case, the wavefunction will be forced to collapse and decide a winner (i.e. it will be choosen randomly).
Players so far:
Xenon
AoP-Vimes
shadow
SillySod
Schpoonay
Nicodemus1
Spiggle (confused)
Plorg
Chewie
DirtyBrian
Walks_in_the_sun
Pac |
Last edited by Irgy on %b %06, %2008 - %08:%Jan; edited 7 times in total |
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Xenon
Joined: Mar 15, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2007 - 13:52 |
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Sounds interesting Irgy... count me in
<b>Sign up Xenon</B> |
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AoP-Vimes
Joined: Oct 12, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 28, 2007 - 21:06 |
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hurray... it look like a new game here in.
Dunno if were able to sign, but i do the same:
sign up AoP-Vimes |
_________________
"he who has relied least on fortune is established the strongest"
Niccolo Machiavelli
---> I have proven the opposite! |
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shadow46x2
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2007 - 08:36 |
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*blinkblink*...
ummm....
.....
signup shadow just because i like scott bakula, because those rules don't make a bit of sense to me...
--j |
_________________
| origami wrote: | | There is no god but Nuffle, and Shadow is his prophet. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2007 - 11:20 |
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I havent really read the rules yet but anything that long has gotta be good.
Signup SillySod
Hopefully the net here at my parents will be working well by then  |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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TheSpoonyBard
Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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Dec 29, 2007 - 14:09 |
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That sounds just ludicrous enough to work.
Signup Schpoonay |
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Nicodemus1
Joined: May 06, 2006
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Dec 29, 2007 - 16:25 |
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Signup Nicodemus1 |
_________________
Why cant we all be friends! Said the dying elf... |
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spiggle
Joined: Aug 12, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 29, 2007 - 21:07 |
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signup confused Spiggle
no doubt i'll screw up these rules too |
_________________
Proud member of GOOF.
Get Orcs Out of Faction. |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2007 - 01:13 |
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Each possible subgame is represented by a unique bitfield of final player states and you filter them out based on the current known states?
So does every possible Seer get a vision response every night?
Can players send both a Seer message and an Attack message?
Will this affect their chances of being either? |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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Dec 30, 2007 - 01:23 |
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True or False:
- Werewolf attacks and kills are only applied after a player is burned and revealed as the dominant werewolf,
at which point a bunch of players who that werewolf targeted in the past few days suddenly drop dead of wounds applied in the past. |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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Dec 30, 2007 - 01:40 |
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True or False:
- The number of players who request a Vision on player X (and the result sent to them) affects the Good% and Evil% of player X.
- The number of players who request a Kill on player X affects the Dead% of player X.
- If everyone revealed (truthfully) in the thread what their Vision result and Kill target was,
then it could be deduced which players match up to which numbers based on the change in the three % numbers for each player.
edit: - The number of players who request a Kill on player X also increases the Good% and decreases the Evil% of player X because wolves would not attack each other.
edit2 - Each player also has a hidden Seer%. A player will be notified by PM when they are the first to be 100% Seer. |
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Chewie
Joined: Dec 13, 2006
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Dec 30, 2007 - 02:53 |
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I'm lost.
Irgy, mate -this has a lot a lot of holes that need filling. |
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Irgy
Joined: Feb 21, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2007 - 03:45 |
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Just a few answers to people's (mostly Plorg's) questions. I'll update the description later as well if I think anything's missing. I don't want to play the game for everyone by giving away all the tactics so I'm not going to go into too much detail past making the rules clear though.
| Plorg wrote: | Each possible subgame is represented by a unique bitfield of final player states and you filter them out based on the current known states?
So does every possible Seer get a vision response every night?
Can players send both a Seer message and an Attack message?
Will this affect their chances of being either? |
Yes, that sounds right.
Yes.
Yes (so in fact everyone sends both a Seer and Wolf message early on in the game).
Yes, it generally will. For instance if you see someone is a wolf, and they burn as a good player, then it's no longer possible that you are the Seer.
| Plorg wrote: | True or False:
- Werewolf attacks and kills are only applied after a player is burned and revealed as the dominant werewolf,
at which point a bunch of players who that werewolf targeted in the past few days suddenly drop dead of wounds applied in the past. |
False, but on the right track. What you say could happen, and often will be what happens. However there's other situations where werewolf kills would be applied, such as if everyone has voted to attack a particular player (and that player is definately not the dominant wolf themselves).
| Plorg wrote: | True or False:
- The number of players who request a Vision on player X (and the result sent to them) affects the Good% and Evil% of player X.
- The number of players who request a Kill on player X affects the Dead% of player X.
- If everyone revealed (truthfully) in the thread what their Vision result and Kill target was,
then it could be deduced which players match up to which numbers based on the change in the three % numbers for each player.
edit: - The number of players who request a Kill on player X also increases the Good% and decreases the Evil% of player X because wolves would not attack each other.
edit2 - Each player also has a hidden Seer%. A player will be notified by PM when they are the first to be 100% Seer. |
- True
- True
- If everyone told the truth then yes. I don't expect this to happen any more than I would expect everyone to reveal their roles truthfully in a normal game. In practise I expect watching the change in %s will be the most useful tactic people can employ. This is extra information to make up for the fact that the voting patterns will be quite uninformative.
edit1 - Yes
edit2 - Yes, but the Seer % is not published. They'll only be told when it's 100%, just like they'll be told if they're 100% Villiager.
| Chewie wrote: | I'm lost.
Irgy, mate -this has a lot a lot of holes that need filling. |
I have thought it through for a fair while, and I'm pretty sure there aren't any holes in the rules. Plorg is asking a lot of questions but his questions are showing he understands it all quite well.
It is a very confusing concept, but the good news is I'm the only one who really has to think hard about it, for the players it should be just like a normal werewolf game except that you don't know what your role is at the start.
I'll happily admit though that it is experimental, and I don't really know how it's going to turn out. I'm still fairly sure it will be good fun though  |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2007 - 05:19 |
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Well you played in my experiment so I'll return the favor.
signup Plorg |
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Chewie
Joined: Dec 13, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 30, 2007 - 09:56 |
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Go on then.
<b>Signup Chewie</b> |
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