Falesh
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jan 24, 2008 - 18:43 |
 
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One thing to note is that I don't pick Claw/RSC or foul much, this is for no other reason then I enjoy the game most this way and it is certainly not how I expect my opponents to play. The below strategy has been working nicely so far, my biggest question with it is if I should continue getting Guard before Block on the Rotters at higher Team Strength. It proved very useful while the team was lower level but I am not totally sure if it will work as well at higher level. Lend me your thoughts. 
Beast
This guys job is primarily to deny your opponent movement. It is often better to not block with him at all rather then risk either a Really Stupid failure or a Skull/Both Down block. However if he is not in such a critical position blocks with him will help your cas due to Mighty Blow, just make sure your drive isn't screwed if he lets go of the players around him.
Normal Skills
Guard, Break Tackle.
I don't particularly like Multiple Block as a 3d block is often better then two 2d blocks. Also if you get a double and take Stand Firm your Beast can then use Break Tackle to dodge into a cage with devastating effects for your opponents drive.
Double Skills
Stand Firm then Block.
I prefer Stand Firm first due to it's ability to team up with Break Tackle which enables a 50% chance to dodge into a tight cage and put tentacles onto the ball carrier. Also the fact that there are 2 push results on the block die and only 1 both down it is also more common for a tentacled player to be able to -2d block push you away rather then getting a both down.
Rotters
These guys are the strong core of the team. Beastmen come and go but Rotters with more then twice the life expectancy hang around. I use them on the los which not only keeps your Beastmen alive but can mess with an opponents turn if FA stops a few blocks.
Normal Skills
Guard, Block, Break Tackle or Mighty Blow.
I like Guard first because when fighting bashy teams you need some Guard and since these guys are getting the Guard the Beastmen can get Block first. This is vital as it helps keep your beastmen alive. After that Block is an easy choice, then depending on the rest of the team and if the Rotter has Stand Firm either Break Tackle or Mighty Blow.
Double Skills
Stand Firm, Tentacles or Dodge.
A Stand Firm ST4 Guard player who stops 1 in 6 blocks is a big road block for your opponent to get around. Also safe 50% chance dodges, or even a crazy dodge that needs a 6, are nice to get them in prime position to give Guard help or get in the way of a drive. After Stand Firm probably Tentacles, having said that I would be tempted to take Dodge as a ST4 Blodger with FA and Stand Firm is just evil.
Beastmen
Don't get attached to these as they don't last long. They are awesome blitzers and the ball carrying force of the team. It is vital that you spread the SPP around as much as possible, if your key Beastman is taken out and you don't have backups you are in a bad situation.
Normal Skills
1 Safe Hands, 1 Kick, Block, 2 Tackle, 2 Mighty Blow.
If none of your Beastmen have Big Hand or +AG then Safe Hands is a good start. After that Kick is great or Block if someone already has Kick. After Block getting a couple of Tacklers and a couple of Mighty Blow is important for dealing with pesky blodgers and upping your cas for Fan Factor. I would highly recommend taking 2 Tacklers as it is easy for your opponent to take out one of them.
Double Skills
1 Frenzy, 1 Big Hand.
I like to get a Frenzy Beastman as this either punishes mistaken moves close to the sideline or stops an opponent being able to use the full field to maneuver. After that having a Big Hand can be great at turning an opponents drive into a drive for you. If you are lucky enough to get more mutations then this see what the team looks and plays like and don't discount interesting pairings like Big Hand & Hail Mary Pass, +MA & Very Long Legs, Frenzy & Stand Firm, etc.
Defensive Setup
My usual setup that has proven very successful is shown in the image below. The Beast is in a position where he can move in front of a drive up the middle or grab hold of the side of a drive that is going wide. I find it far more useful to be able to move the Beast to the best spot rather then have him tied down on the los. The Beastman behind him is there first to help the Beast then as the main Blitzer, he is the one with Mighty Blow or Tackle depending on your opponent. I usually have the Rotters together so they can help each other with Guard but it can be good to spread them out if your opponent has lots of st4 and/or Guard players. It can also be useful to spread them out if you want to cover a larger area with FA to help against passes.
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Last edited by Falesh on %b %25, %2008 - %22:%Jan; edited 2 times in total |
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pythrr
Joined: Mar 07, 2006
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Jan 24, 2008 - 19:30 |
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an elaborate strategy, which I guess rotters need, as they generally suck as a team. |
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Juff
Joined: May 24, 2006
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Jan 24, 2008 - 20:03 |
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Informative, well written strat, with sound reasoning. Thanks!
Now I just need to stop being afraid of 60k linos with AV8 and no apo :p |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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Jan 24, 2008 - 22:10 |
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Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
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Jan 25, 2008 - 01:37 |
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Falesh nice strategy, but I do disagree on some points.
Beast:
True with stand firm the beast won’t be pushed away and can jump in and hold people, but he is then an easier target to get down and will cause more turnovers for you with no block. With block he is more reliable and won’t so much often cause turnovers. And with 3d blocks on the LOS, then 3skulls won’t often come by.
Rotters:
I would "always" pick block before guard on these guys, they need to hit every turn and not assist. In the beginning of the team creating, then you wont have many RRs. And you can’t always count on your agi3 beastman to pick up the ball or what ever, and then it is a waste of RR to use on a Rotter. Plus with Block, he will be able to faster make cases.
I would even say take MB before guard, because then you will make cases faster and quicker spp for maybe guard or more mutation ^^
Don’t forgot pass block on these guys, sadly I have not taken that myself on mine yet. But with stand firm these guys can dodge and make -2 to the pass or catch.
Beastmen:
Personally I don’t take sure hands, because I would rather have a big hand or ag4 beastman. And since in most cases I take block before guard then I use my RRs for the ball handling.
If you are ever to get a big hand+stand firm guy, then you will be able to take the ball almost anytime everywhere. Get him nerve of steel so that if not possible to dodge away then he can always throw it.
I like block/guard beastmen, because when just used for adding the ekstra dice they will hopefully not be the one that gets the block next turn where your rotters are the only beings to take the hittings. Beastmen are fragile being, so you don’t want them to get hit. Plus they move faster then rotters and with guard on most of them, you can advance faster up one wing caging while your rotters tear down anything they can get within range. That way you spread out the spp rotters killing, beastmen scorging and blitzing what ever needs to be taking down.
You may not like fouling, but at least have 1DP on your team. Taking out key players do matters, taking out damaging rampaging key players is important. You don’t have an apo, so take the players out that have a higher chance of killing your players then other none killing machines do..
I have played rotters a lot, with my Danes of Nurgle have I more then 100 games now (which should not be possible if you read the help guide ^^). One thing you do not want is a game where you are the target, load your team up with block so you are the one hitting the target. If you are prone or no need of holding a player, then don’t stand next to the guy. When you play Rotters, you need to care for your guys. When getting near the TR200 range, then a high FF is also needed. You will be forced to buy new beastmen faster then other teams have to buy new players.
Setup:
The setup is good if you have a healthy team, however you will find out quickly that your beastmen will be in bad shape. They are the LOS fodder. Not your Rotters or Beast. In most cases on other teams you would wont to retire those niggling players, but not on a Rotter team. They are LOS fodder, who cares if they die or niggle again? If your rotters suddenly does not want to REG, then it is harder to retire a rotter then it is a beastmen.
Well just my maybe a bit random add on to your post. Hmm it seemed my post spawned and grow big as a Beast. Oh well ^^ |
Last edited by Ehlers on %b %25, %2008 - %01:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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Tesifonte
Joined: Sep 06, 2004
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Jan 25, 2008 - 01:39 |
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Block Pro on Beast rather than SF Block. Pro helps avoiding really stupid.
On the rest: very nice work. Hats off man. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Jan 25, 2008 - 01:52 |
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Block SF is really good because it keeps your beast latched onto them nicely. With reliable blocking and dodging the beast can really get into the middle of an enemy squad where his guard/tents are most useful.
SF also stops those sneaky chain pushes (and normal pushes). |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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Jan 25, 2008 - 02:10 |
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I am a big fan of Rotters! I play them alot and they rock in LRB5...
But congrats on the strategy... our defensive set ups mimick each other!
What I like about the beastmen is that you can be very creative and have nuisance skills. I have used a ST3 beastmen with tentacles... he doesnt always hold, but its very annoying and a tactic that works because people dont expect it...
Also, spikes on the beastmen can be a help. If a guy gets 2 normal skills and then a double, I would recommend the spikes because you now want to keep him around longer.
Foul Appearance also helps on a beastman. If you get a +AG guy, pass block and FA are great combos.
Well done! |
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mymLaban
Joined: Apr 20, 2004
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Jan 25, 2008 - 02:49 |
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dodge SF ? you realize rotters can mutate :/ 1 blodge on a team is useless. 1 claw on the other hand gives you alot more bashing power |
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bartgoon
Joined: Dec 27, 2004
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Jan 25, 2008 - 02:50 |
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Clay's maximum tentacle horrors + my elves = lasting psychological trauma |
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Leniyuhl
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
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Jan 25, 2008 - 02:52 |
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about pro. Id have to agree that with a beast sf is vastly superior.
a pro only improves RS rolls from 50 to 62,5% success (when its most benificial)
stand firm means you dont have to roll as many really stupid unless you are in a position where the risk is minimal. |
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Dragons
Joined: May 31, 2006
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Jan 25, 2008 - 08:54 |
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Hello all nurgel rotters lovers.
Let me help you little.
I have played 329 games with rotters. So i think that i can help you little here.
Your startegy is nice, but I cant say that you will have any fun after some times.
Why do i say so?
yes you will get games agaisnt all players and no one will ever disslike a game against you, but the setback is that you will never have a full team to play with.
Trust me on this one, ok you might be very lucky some games with no casualties against you, but it wont last forever.
Nurgel rotters need to have skills that can hurt oponent players.
I started in faction with a team and dident take a single claw or rsc.
what happend? i died i died and i almost lost every game.
see my team here http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=283078
In the end of my carrier with that team i started to take some claw but then it was to late.
So i started again and tryied a new team. Still i dident take a lot of claw and rsc becoouse i think its more fun to play TD games instead of destroying oponents team.
Even this team get destroyed. http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=334623
Ok i still have them and can do comeback, but rotters and beast with N is reakly bad.
So please lissen little to me if you want to enyoy playing nurgel rotters.
You need atleast 2 or 3 claw and maybe one with rsc.
BESTMEN
All players should take block as the first skill, ofcourse not on dubbel. Guard is not so importen on this one but get 1 or 2 and then get skills that can help you with the ballhandling and MB.
First dubbel should be big hand. at th beginning i should take FA before i take claw. so you get more games.
Maybe some dodge and standfirm to get some more options for you players.
Take a dp in your team if you want to live longer. Take out the oponents killer players. I dont know if i like dp so mush here becouse a MB can be better some times, but some gang upp dp can sometimes help.
ROTTER
Always take block then guard or MB, but i want guard on rotters instead of beastmen so i go with guard.
Dubbels is great with some more tentacle. Standfirm is cools skill to, with passblock. but better give that to beastmen.
Then start taking claws on higher TR.
Beast
This players make the team fun to play. Kill a polayer and get a fre rotters.
Block if you can get a dubbel becouse you realy need to stand up so they cant dodge away from you.
regular skills should go to guard and break tackle.
Setup on the field.
Use beastmen that are damage on the los.
Dont stand rotters or veast on the line more then at your first 20 games. After that you vill get killed. with some mb or dp players.
start with 3 beastmen on los if they are hurted, then take rotters 3 steps from middle and one beastmen behind. The beast should be placed in the somewere in there to.
Hope this helps little.
Now i want to start playing my rotters again in faction. |
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Cloggy
Joined: Sep 23, 2004
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Jan 25, 2008 - 09:46 |
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I love it. Being quite addicted to Rotters as well I only have a few additions to make. On the BoN I'd prefer SF over pro. It happens quite often that I choose not even to block with the beast when an important player on the opposition is tentacled up. Having SF will make a succesfull -2d block to free up that so much more unlikely.
As for the claw debate: In ranked you can go whichever way you want, but in any other environment I'd say rotters need some claws to keep up with the true bashy teams. |
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Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life. |
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Falesh
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 25, 2008 - 15:08 |
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| mymLaban wrote: | | dodge SF ? you realize rotters can mutate :/ 1 blodge on a team is useless. |
I agree, but there is still a little voice inside urging me to get it just to mess with opponents. 
| McMagnus wrote: | | Dont stand rotters or veast on the line more then at your first 20 games. After that you vill get killed. with some mb or dp players. |
The reason I like to put Rotters on the los is because it is hard enough keeping up with replacing lost players and having 3 Beastmen on the los will add more to that cost. I did a bit of research into the life expectancy of Rotters vs Beastmen a while ago and it turned up that a Beastman has a life expectancy of 15.89 games whereas a Rotter will last on average for 35.07. These figures aren't perfect but with FA, Regen and AV9 it makes sense that Rotters are more then twice as tough as Beastmen, but they cost less then twice as much. This means that if you can get your Rotters to take the hits rather then your Beastmen your team maintenance will cost less. I also don't put hurt Beastmen on the los because I fire hurt players straight away. 
With regard to Claw, like I said I don't use it as part of my playing style so I didn't add it to the guide. I would say though that it isn't as good as it is sometimes made out to be. The reason I think this is because everyone can already get Mighty Blow, and that doesn't use a double that could go on other damn fine skills or mutations. I made he stats below a while ago to show the difference between Mighty Blow and Claw. As you can see Mighty Blow stands up fairly well against Claw apart from causing stuns. So is Claw worth the difference between Mighty Blow and Claw considering it costs a double? It depends on the rest of your team really. One other thing, if you have a Claw on a Beastman he probably won't live very long. 
Stunned
KO
Casualty
I do the same as Cloggy and often don't block with the beast when he is in a good position. It happens very often that he is pushed away from the players he is tentacling due to a -2d block. To be able to keep him next to key players can be the making or breaking of a drive or defence. Being able to try a safe dodge using effectively ag 5 is also a great bonus.
| Ehlers wrote: | | Personally I don’t take sure hands, because I would rather have a big hand or ag4 beastman. |
I have nightmares about my first round FC game where I was nearly knocked out by a -36ts Wood Elf team who had a st4 Strip Ball Wardancer. Since then I always have at least one Sure Hands in my team. |
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RandomOracle
Joined: Jan 11, 2004
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Jan 25, 2008 - 15:18 |
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The point of claw is not that it's better than MB, it's that it can be combined very effectively with MB (or RSC if lucky) later. Just one or two claw+MB players will make your team hit a lot harder as you can focus on blitzing with them. |
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