TheLegend
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Oct 14, 2003 - 21:18 |
 
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I definately understand the fear of getting your team beaten up (having retired enough skaven and amazon teams to fill a whole new profile) but the rate of players that flat out refuse to play bashy teams is really starting to bug me. My Chaos Dwarves are strength 225 right now and they hit hard (real hard!), but I barely ever get to play with them, even undead and chaos coaches won't play me, and IMHO it really blows. I had a khemri team that got matches so infrequently that I just retired the team (maybe to start a team that people will actually play...) and I am really proud of both my CD team and my Undead team (also 200+) but I know that it's gonna be a pain in the arse to find games with them. I wish FUMBBL had a challenge system. It could allow you to challenge any team with a higher team rating and strength, and they could either play you or concede.
I like playing bashy teams, but I don't like the environment where you won't even consider playing a coach simply because of their race... it's whack, It sucks that the teams I play are going to reach a point where they can't find games because opposing coaches are too afraid of them. As it is now it seems like I only get games against chaos and undead and dwarves and orcs... With the possable exception of my amazons (who have yet to play a dwarf team, but have considered it) any of my teams will play any similarly rated team regardless of race. (yes, I do coach mostly high armor / high strength teams, but I would play the same way with my skaven and zons and will with any other teams I make.)
I guess I just wish there were more coaches like me... |
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Khaan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 21:30 |
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Compared to a tabletop tournament with a fairly limited number of coaches each with only one team, fumbbl.com has in relative terms almost infinitely more teams to play against. And given that you (excepting tournaments) aren't really forced to play any specific person/team, it is quite natural to play a team that gives your own team the greatest chances of survival.
This is compounded by the fact that you aren't really competing for that number one place, cause most fumbbl.com games are just for fun. So what if you loose a match? You still get a bit of cash and as long as none of your players died....
Thus take the easy route. Make a durable team. Build slowly but steadily. Peak out late but solid as a rock.
Of course not all coaches think like this, but a majority seem to. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 21:45 |
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Legend is right. The majority of the FUMMBL comunity is lowly turning into wussies. Either your team is too rough, or your team has too much agility, or your ranking is too high. The worst I've seen are Orc coaches (anonymous) who stack their team with STR skills (guard etc) and then claim "I only play dodgy" teams when you challenge them with an equally tough team.
It seems you now have 15% of the Wuhan/Deathgerbil I KILL I KILL coaches, 35% of coaches who play even up matches against any team, and 50% of wussified coaches.
That makes for a long night trying to find games. |
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Vladimyr
Joined: Oct 08, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 21:47 |
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The skill in creating a competent BB team is not in taking the deadliest skills; it's in taking those skills that create a balanced team. The most entertaining games I have had are those that have been played against humans, norse, etc. with a few tanks in the lineup. A Chaos team that gives its players PO and RSC at every opportunity is not entertaining in the least (except perhaps to the coach of the thuggy team). Why would any coach decide to play such a cut-throat opponent when they are guaranteed to lose a minimum of 5 players by next game? He would have to be insane or have a team with similar intentions.
Don't get me wrong. I would always play against a Chaos team that has strong players with an interesting cross-section of skills, but if it looks like their only intent is to get SPP's by slaughtering my guys, I will usually take a firm stance, and avoid playing. After all, I am looking for a tense strategy game against evenly matched opponents. I run an Undead team that has a good spread of skills that are not limited to squashing my opponents. Rarely do I have trouble finding a team to play.
The way I figure it, create a tough team, but the more balanced it is, the more entertaining it will be to play against, and the easier it will be to find opponents. The true skill is in finding that balance. |
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Barash
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 21:48 |
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The problem with your team(s) (your CD's especially) is the number of PO's on your team.
I have a dwarf team with no PO skills and it's even hard to find opponents for them, but I can find an occasional game for them, but I'm sure if they had a few PO skills they would be without a game as well.
Mainly (and don't get this discussion started again here) because a lot of coaches think PO is broken, and dont' like it to take 9 casualties and need to retire their team.
My advice: start over with your teams (of fire the PO skilled players).. bash as you like, but don't take the PO skill. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 21:49 |
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Here's the CD team in question
| Quote: | | ...I guess I just wish there were more coaches like me... |
There are plenty. They just want to play against nice soft fluffy teams, just like you.
If you were to start asking me for a game vs one of my nice soft fluffy teams, I'd take a look at the roster and (unless I was in the mood for it) pass.
Why? Look at the roster. You can tell exactly how such a game would end already.
Average of just barely over 1 TD/Game, 9 players that exist solely to smash your opponent and a few token ball-handling Hobbos. No offense, but I would be bored to tears watching you chew up my team while I scored. Repeat as necessary. Eventually, you can chew up my handful of remaining players and score your 1.2 TDs youself while I can't stop you.
Am I a wuss? I guess so. I play for fun and I just don't see why I should play a game that I already know won't be particularly exciting or fun for me. It's simply a matter of enjoying different aspects of the game, I suppose. I like making big plays and trying to win. Roughing up an opponent is a fun extra, but by no means a goal for me (as before, with the exception of a rare mood. I'm generalizing here).
So you're saying that that means that only elves are playable in Open, right? By not having a challenge system (or something to that effect) Dwarves and Undead and Chaos are all unplayable? We should all put on tutus and start pirouetting around the place, right?
Check out my Dwarves (in particular, check out the TD and CAS difference), Chaos (again, TDs to CAS are noteworthy), and Undead (I didn't do very well with them, but hey, it was my first try). There's more than one way to play bashy teams. They can even score occasionally, if you try. You could even take a non-CAS inducing skill occasionally (Guard over PO, for example. I mean... c'mon...) to improve your (gasp!) position on the field rather than your bodycount.
(sorry, grumpy today) |
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Freefragger
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Oct 14, 2003 - 22:10 |
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I have been playing my DE for almost 6 months now, and for some reason they keep getting killed or inj. That is ok, I can live with that, it´s a part of the game. What I really dislike, is coaches who, for some unknown reason, keep asking my team (only 8 players left) to play thier psycho-bash-kill-claw-RSC-PO team (mostly dwarfs, CD, chaos, orc or undead), who is only 50-100str higher than my own team... That is the kind of coaches, that makes me say no, when they ask to play, even if we are at the same str, it´s just not that fun to know, that u will have half the team left, that u started with, and yes I have played those teams, but playing a mino, that made 5 cas alone, that was 3 players in the drain, is simply not fun...
All in all I have to agree with BadMrMojo, I play for fun, not to get my team, that I have spent so many hours on building, smashed...
Regards FreeFragger |
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psikobunny
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 22:25 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: | | (sorry, grumpy today) |
BMM- Don't apologize when you are right.
I agree with BMM 99%. My only dissention is that any hobbo who makes it 30+ uninjured games is more than "token." Teams designed to hurt me instead of play Bloodbowl won't get games most of the time. Teams designed to get to the end zone no matter I do to stop them will. I decide what the difference is, and if you can't judge the subtlety between those two, I'm sorry for you.
I'm the coach that decides what villages my teams go to. When you and I sit down in the tavern to negotiate, and I hear screaming horses outside near where your team waits by the stables... well let's just say negotiations will be short and to my satisfaction.
PS- responses along the lines of it being part of the game or with even the hint of "it's BLOODbowl" will be ignored. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 22:27 |
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Mojo - 1st - how come you have all this time to chat on the forums but not enough to join WWB .....errr .. I digress.
Mojo - 1st - excellent points, I agree with all of them. (Mully NOT sucking up). And I can understand most coaches not wanting to play my Chaos team (being built to play against the Deathgerbils of the world). But I have to donate a kidney to get teams to even play my dwarves. http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=23726
I usually carry 1 PO and 1 DP on my roster to give me the flexibility to play semi-bashing teams if I'm offered. I make sure the DP is always hovering near my opponents PO guy so that he doesn't get any crazy ideas. This seems to work pretty well. To all those coaches who won't play against 1 lousy PO guy, just get a DP and see how little the PO dude actually does the "pancake".
PS - I usually check the CAS rates on a team (and coach) before deciding to play them or not. The roster skills do not always give a good indication of the type of coach you are playing. For example, some coaches with DP only use it as a deterrent and don't foul regularly, while other coaches without a DP foule every other turn. |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 22:54 |
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This whole thread appears to be a clever campaign to promote my C.O.M.M.U.N.I.S.T. tournament. If you've got a killer team, this is the group for you. But it appears all the bashy teams are too afraid to play eachother. 
On a slightly serious note. There's another reason why pansy (dodge-heavy) teams won't play Chaos Dwarves. It's the biggest abuse of the STR formula around. The pansy team pays a STR premium for blodge, which most of your team eliminates with tackle. So, if you are playing Chaos Dwarves, I would advise you not to challenge pansy teams of equivalent STR, you should be challenging up. But then again that would be abusing the rankings system (not like any coach is doing this  ).
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
Settlers of Catan |
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Last edited by EvolveToAnarchism on %b %15, %2003 - %04:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 22:56 |
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Q:
| Mully wrote: | Mojo - 1st - how come you have all this time to chat on the forums but not enough to join WWB .....errr .. I digress.
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A: It's easier to mutislack* surfing forums than playing a game. 
* multislack (mul-ti-slack) v. Leaving one window or tab open with work prominently displayed while performing an alternate task in a second browser window. Usually one which would get one fired, tarred, feathered, beaten, flayed, eaten, fined, or scolded. Or all the above. |
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Last edited by BadMrMojo on %b %15, %2003 - %02:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Chickenbrain
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 23:01 |
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| Freefragger wrote: | What I really dislike, is coaches who, for some unknown reason, keep asking my team (only 8 players left) to play thier psycho-bash-kill-claw-RSC-PO team (mostly dwarfs, CD, chaos, orc or undead), who is only 50-100str higher than my own team... That is the kind of coaches, that makes me say no, when they ask to play, even if we are at the same str, it´s just not that fun to know, that u will have half the team left, that u started with, and yes I have played those teams, but playing a mino, that made 5 cas alone, that was 3 players in the drain, is simply not fun...
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Cough.. speaks the coach who likes to challenge my poor little gobbos with his nasty dwarfs.... Nothing more to say...
Btw, fumbbl.com is not compareable to any classical BloodBowl environment, where dwarfes develop way slower then any playing team and have a natural disadvantage cause of that... !!! |
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MickeX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 23:21 |
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I like to play bashy or semi-bashy teams, but the main point with this game is to have fun. That's why I don't mind the least when someone doesn't want to play my all-Guard dwarves. And that's also why I avoid taking PO until it's fixed - there are very few coaches out there who wants to play against an all-PO team just to get convinced LRB needs to be changed.
Why should I spend 2 h playing against a coach who isn't playing the ball? Even my dwarves avoid boring matches. It's very, very seldom that the PO/RSC/DP-teams have a good rating. They mostly lose more matces than they win. |
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TheLegend
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2003 - 23:22 |
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On every team that I will ever make with AG 1 or AG 2 players who get strength skills, those players will get P O and MB before any other skill short of block. Why? Because I love killing people's teams? NO... because progressing your team, getting them as strong as possible as fast as possible is a big part of the fun. One of the most exciting parts of the game for me comes after all the scoring is done and I get to make those skill rolls (come on big 12!). I think guard is the best skill in the game bar none, and all of my CD's will get it soon, but I think it's silly to try and feed TDs to your MA 4 AG 2 dwarves as I see a lot of teams doing (good thing the rerolls are cheap!) I would rather let them do what they're made to do (chaos dwarf BLOCKERS) and hit people. The ONLY reason I took PO/MB before guard was to speed up my skill progression, my team (unlike teams that take guard first) doesn't have to pray for TDs and MVPs to get them up to the 31 point level (where by the way, my CDs without doubles get guard), we get the casualties instead.
and as a note I don't have 9 people on my team built to kill people. My bull centaurs do not have PO or MB because as my blitzers block/tackle/strip ball (and next will be break tackle, and then guard) were much more important for them.
If I had a chaos team I would play them much differently, as I wouldn't have to count on the casualties for the SPPs (AG 3 woohoo!) |
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Khaan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 14, 2003 - 23:25 |
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Gnomes are trash
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