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funnyfingers



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 16:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Should the help section for skills be updated? I thought this is a bug and you should not purposefully scatter the ball...

No Hands (Racial Characteristic)

This is a JavaBBowl skill. The player with this skill may not pick up or catch the ball. If a player with this skill attempts to pck up the ball, it will fail automatically and scatter one square. This is not a turnover.
funnyfingers



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2008 - 19:50 Reply with quote Back to top

So is using no hands to scatter the ball an exploit?
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2008 - 19:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I think that technically it is since its not listed in differences from the boardgame. On the other hand I dont think many people really care Very Happy

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pizzamogul



Joined: Jun 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 11, 2008 - 22:02 Reply with quote Back to top

funnyfingers wrote:
So is using no hands to scatter the ball an exploit?


Yes, this is an exploit since it does not end your turn and can be done repeatedly.

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funnyfingers



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 12, 2008 - 02:49 Reply with quote Back to top

It doesn't seem like an exploit from the skill description.

Maybe it should be updated:
http://fumbbl.com/help:Skills
Manbush



Joined: Nov 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 12, 2008 - 04:39 Reply with quote Back to top

It's not an exploit since someone with no hands is making no attempt to pick up the ball, just moving through the square that it's in. If people choose to use this to deliberately scatter the ball, so be it. No worse than using chainpushes.

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funnyfingers



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 00:18 Reply with quote Back to top

So I hear it is and it is not an exploit. Can we get an official ruling? So far I side with not an exploit since the description seems to let you without a turnover and doesn't say not to do it.
hardin0



Joined: May 24, 2006

Post   Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 00:27 Reply with quote Back to top

From: http://fumbbl.com/help:SkillList
"No Hands: Racial Characteristic The player with this skill may not pick up or catch the ball. If a player with this skill attempts to pick up the ball, it will fail automatically and scatter one square. This is not a turnover and is considered a bug, please do not abuse it. "

I don't know if it's something officiar lor not.
Ludovicious



Joined: May 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 00:50 Reply with quote Back to top

arent players like ball and chain and wisps designed to specifícally do this over and over again?
Geenimetsuri



Joined: Jun 08, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 09:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Ludovicious wrote:
arent players like ball and chain and wisps designed to specifícally do this over and over again?

Good point.

B&C player accidentally moving on to the ball simply cannot constitute as a turnover...they're already too hazardous players without this particular feature.

edit:
Wouldn't it also cause turnover immediately hence removing the collapse roll?
funnyfingers



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 02:25 Reply with quote Back to top

From the LRB4 wording it looks like if a buzzing player attempts to pick up the ball he fails and a fanatic can never attempt to pick it up. Clearly if someone with no hands moves onto the ball they attempt to pick it up and fail and should end the turn...

Turnovers:
"3. A player from the moving team attempts to pick up the ball
and fails or"

Ball & Chain:
"Goblin Fanatics are never allowed to pick up or catch the ball,
and can’t be used to assist other players in a block."

Buzzing:
"A player of your choice in your team has gone heavy on the coffee in anticipation of today’s game. For this match only he gains the Jump Up trait and the Frenzy trait, but will automatically fail any attempt to pick up, intercept or catch the ball."
Geenimetsuri



Joined: Jun 08, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 18:03 Reply with quote Back to top

It should also be noted that the LRB 4 states this about touchback:
If the ball scatters or bounces off the field or into the kicking team’s half,
the receiving coach is awarded a ‘touchback’ and may give the ball to any player in his team.


So giving a ball to a player with no hands or buzzing should be OK if going by exact wording - Even though they can't (normally?) hold on to the ball.

Does anyone have an interpretation of what will happen if you give the ball to a buzzing, B&C player or no hands player - will it for example scatter - or if those should even be possible?

Reading literally that touchback rule could mean that other players stick the ball inside the clothing or attach it to the player using other means (eg. tape) for example. Extreme rules lawyer might even point out that touchback rule doesn't limit the players of the team to the players on the pitch! Mr. Green
Erod



Joined: Jun 08, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 19:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Sure, you can give it to a player with Buzzing on the pitch.
funnyfingers



Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2008 - 04:44 Reply with quote Back to top

So we have to similar pages under help, which may have started this confusion. Maybe someone could delete one? Also if I play someone that uses no hands to just scatter the ball I assume I can ask them to end the turn.

http://fumbbl.com/help:SkillList
http://fumbbl.com/help:Skills
Laviak



Joined: Jul 19, 2004

Post   Posted: Jun 15, 2008 - 08:03 Reply with quote Back to top

I've updated Skills to redirect readers to SkillList (looked like the second had been updated more recently). I'm not convinced that it is entirely up to date. For the skills page, the content is still there in the page history.

PS: it's a wiki, so *anyone* can delete one - or add notes to one if it is out of date! Please don't be shy to do so!



afaik, buzzing is the main reason that no hands was implemented - I guess it applies with ball & chain / chainsaw too. From the handicap table,
LRB 4 wrote:
BUZZING: A player of your choice in your team has gone heavy on the coffee in anticipation of today’s game. For this match only he gains the Jump
Up trait and the Frenzy trait, but will automatically fail any attempt to pick up, intercept or catch the ball.

Since there is no specific note, the normal rules for a failed attempt to pick up, intercept or catch will apply (i.e. yes, attempting to pick up the ball is a turnover).

If a coach uses a "no hands" player to scatter the ball, they should then end the turn. You can ask them to do so, and can report them if they do not (first offence will almost certainly just be a warning not to do it again).

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