TexMurphy
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
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 Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 11:29 |
 
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Im quite new to BB and Im enjoying the game very much. Though Im struggling a bit so I need some help.
How do I avoid the 1-2 loss against bashers?
I tend to see the following scenario alot.
Me score in 2-3 turns and then they score in turn 8. In half where they get the ball they score in turn 7-8. The 1-2 loss is a fact.
Im torn between what I should do. Should I try to keep on to the ball for more turns?
Sure that sounds optimal if I could score at round 6-7 in the half the basher would have a hard time to roll down the field with the cage and score in time. But should I give up a possible two turn score??
If I see a chance to score shouldnt I go for it?
On defense Ive been setting up a line infront and above or below (depending on where on field the ball is). They set up 1 squre away from cage. I use a few blitzers and try to harras the cage and hit it from behind (usually where the weakest players are). I try to blitz and open up so that I can get a player next to the ball carrier forcing him to dodge or to direct their blocking efforts towards teh back.
Im not sure if this is any good. I dont tend to break through the cage and all the dodging that the front line gets to do costs me turnovers and standing players.
Should I keep at it the way Im doing it or shoud I do something else?
One thing Ive been thinking is to have all my players between goalline and cage creating two lines. One line 1 square back and one 3 squares back. This way I could support my players that are trying to dodge and maybe acomplish that the goaline gets stacked with my players and the ball carrier will have to dodge inorder to reach it.
Some thoughts would be nice because I want to improve my game.
Tex |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 11:57 |
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| TexMurphy wrote: | | Me score in 2-3 turns and then they score in turn 8. |
Don't score in 2-3 turns.
| Quote: | | Im torn between what I should do. Should I try to keep on to the ball for more turns? |
Yes.
| Quote: | | Sure that sounds optimal if I could score at round 6-7 in the half the basher would have a hard time to roll down the field with the cage and score in time. But should I give up a possible two turn score?? |
Yes. Even better try and score after 4-5 turns. This leaves the basher with enough time that he thinks he still has a good chance of scoring which means: a) he may prioritise the effort to score over damaging your team (whereas if he has one or two turns, he'll just spend the rest of the half doing as much damage as possible) and b) because he doesn't actually have that much time to score, he is more likely to make a mistake, giving you the opportunity to score again.
| Quote: | | If I see a chance to score shouldnt I go for it? |
No. (Nor should you Go For It.  )
In addition, don't choose to receive at the start of a match when you know the other team is much bashier and will win the blocking battle. Choosing to receive helps their 2-1 strategy. Instead, choose to kick, thus ensuring that you defend with a full team. When you receive in the second half you should still be able to score even if you've lost a few players by then. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Apr 18, 2008 - 12:08 |
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On techniques for defending against cages: there have been many many threads on this. It is really well worth a search as there is lots of good advice buried in the archives here.
A couple of key points:
- The best time to break a cage is before it's even formed. Don't set up deep on defence. Set up well forward (two squares back from halfway) so that you can break into the opponent's half to harry the ball-carrier as soon as possible (maybe even with a Blitz! or after a failed pick-up). Get Kick and use it.
- You must have the right skills. If you've been spending skills on things like Pass Block, Nerves of Steel, etc. it should be no surprise that you're having trouble against cages. Block, Dodge, Side Step, Guard (on doubles), Diving Tackle, Leap, Strip Ball - these are the kind of skills you need for cage-breaking. If you don't have them, then pressuring an opposing cage is often just gifting the opponent free blocks/CAS.
- A cage is more than just the (typically) five players who form it. It relies on the support of the rest of its team for its strength. A cage which forms deep or a cage which advances too quickly can often be separated from the rest of its team (who are usually still bogged down on the LoS). An isolated cage will struggle to maintain its solidity at all, much less move forward while doing so.
However, the absolute most important element is timing your own offence, as mentioned above. |
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Eghost
Joined: Oct 19, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:09 |
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Get some block, dodge, sidestep players, bashers tend to lack tackle, then these are very annoying to advance with the cage. And what Pac said, stall a bit yourself and leave them 2-3 turns for a risky play and make sure you have a player in scoring range yourself. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:11 |
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| TexMurphy wrote: | Im torn between what I should do. Should I try to keep on to the ball for more turns?
Some thoughts would be nice because I want to improve my game. |
Definitely stall a bit more on your drive. While you do that, keep passing the ball around to skill up rookies, all the while doing the 1 blitz per turn and possibly a good foul, if the opportunity arises.
That way you should be able to get at least the 1-1. |
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Melmoth
Joined: May 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:12 |
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I pretty much agree with ecerything pac sayed....Except that receive thing....do never ever choose to kick...receive instead and use you own MB and DP to get an advantage, will makes things easier to score later.... |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:15 |
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| Melmoth wrote: | | I pretty much agree with ecerything pac sayed....Except that receive thing....do never ever choose to kick...receive instead and use you own MB and DP to get an advantage, will makes things easier to score later.... |
If you have that much MB and DP, then the condition:
| Quote: | | ... when you know the other team is much bashier and will win the blocking battle |
- does not apply.
That said, it's true that if you're following the right strategy (ie, stalling) it doesn't make that much difference whether you kick or receive. (The main issue is KO rolls around half-time.) What's totally disastrous is the combination of the two choices to receive and to score quickly, which just puts the entire shape of the rest of the game in the basher's hands. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:18 |
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A funny note (that is also quite true imho): remember that the perfect stalling is not a 8 turns stalling. It's a 5-6 turns one. 
Why? because there's nothing more likely to give you a 2-0 counterattack than a khemri or a Dwarf team trying to score in two turns against you.
Basically, you score with elves in turn 6, they try to hurry, they mess something up, you capitalize and 2-0 you go. With a little luck, it's game over |
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Topper
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:19 |
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I second 100% Melmoth here.
Never opt to kick - whether you´re the basher or not.
Other than that I think Pac is pretty much spot on.
But you don´t play CD´s and Orcs the same way fx.
One very good tactic is to try and cut the opponents team "in two" by seperating players on one side to make them more or less useless. |
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Kinks
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:21 |
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Hi Tex,
Sounds like you've been a little unlucky, the defeats you are suffering are typical basher team victories. I personally wouldn't waste turns in order to improve your chances of winning - I feel stalling is un-sports like, even if it would improve your chances of winning. If someone stalls against me I will foul there players every turn and then blacklist them at the end of the match.
It's difficult to give you pacific tactics without actually seeing you play. High elves aren't that weak at Str 3 and AV 8, so you should be able to put up a bit of a fit against most opponents. Your description of your tactics sound fairly good,
It is handy to send two of your players (usually catchers) into your opponents half, so they are just within MA range of the TD line. Because of there fast movement they will still be in range to run back and help you should you really need them. If the opponent slips up in any way you now have a great opportunity to score a TD before your opponent can have another turn t correct there mistake. Usually an opponent will send someone back to cover these players - which is also handy because you have reversed the situation slightly - rather than using to of your weaker players to defend against to of his players he is having to send people back to defend against yours.
Using two lines does help against the basher teams, I often prefer to have my second line directly behind my first line, rather than 1 square back. This will should slow down the cages progress to 1 square a turn.
Another tactic is to place place within the tackle zone of his cage - probably just the rear corner 2. This will leave you opponent the option of blocking them, which would mean those players can't move forward as part of the cage that turn, and may even draw other players for assists. Your opponent then will either not be able to move his cage forward that turn, will have to lose some protection on his cage or have to draw other players in (in combination wth the running the 2 players forward your opponent is running low on spare players now).
Ultimately you will need a little luck (what BB is all about really), a well organised basher team cage should be practically unbreakable if everything goes there way. However we all no that it is very rare that everything will go there way. As the defender you need to make life as difficult as possible for your opponent, force them to make as many rolls as possible and hope that the make a mistake at some point. When they do your faster, more agile elves should respond fast before they have an opportunity to stop you.
Hope that helps. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:23 |
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| Kinks wrote: | | I feel stalling is un-sports like, even if it would improve your chances of winning. |
One day someone will explain me how the hell a khemri team can win a game against a wood elf team by NOT stalling. That day I'll be a happy dude and also a much better coach, I suppose...  |
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Kinks
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:36 |
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Jan,
Admittedly it would be a challenge. However I have won games with soft teams against basher teams and basher teams against soft teams without stalling (referring to before I played fummbl before you check my match record!).
I can understand people using stalling tactics in tournaments, but not for regular play (i.e. unranked, ranked and league games) it just spoils the game.
Maybe a WE team would like to play my Khemri and I could try and show you....... |
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Better lucky than good |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:39 |
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| Kinks wrote: | | I can understand people using stalling tactics in tournaments, but not for regular play (i.e. unranked, ranked and league games) it just spoils the game. |
Ranked is competitive. You play ranked to win. If you don't play using all the tactics you think are necessary in order to win, you probably don't belong to ranked. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:42 |
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| Kinks wrote: | | I feel stalling is un-sports like, even if it would improve your chances of winning. If someone stalls against me I will foul their players every turn and then blacklist them at the end of the match. |
I feel that scoring touchdowns against me when I'm not in the lead is un-sports like. If someone scores against me, I will foul their players every turn and then blacklist them at the end of the match.
Well, probably not, mostly they are quicker blacklisting me 
Still, scoring against me is pretty lame, I really hate that people still keep doing it. |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Apr 18, 2008 - 12:47 |
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| pac wrote: |
A couple of key points:
- The best time to break a cage is before it's even formed. Don't set up deep on defence. Set up well forward (two squares back from halfway) so that you can break into the opponent's half to harry the ball-carrier as soon as possible (maybe even with a Blitz! or after a failed pick-up). Get Kick and use it. |
I especially concur with this. You must aggressively hound the ball carrier from the kick-off, because you'll lose a war of attrition. I note you have two high Elf teams, yet no Kick skill - simply put, Kick will win you games and potentially keep your elves healthier, as your opponent must then commit more resources to securing the ball.
Naturally, read the User Guide: http://fumbbl.com/help:HighElfStrategy |
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