sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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 Posted:
Dec 11, 2008 - 16:16 |
 
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| johan wrote: | | westerner wrote: |
2) Metagaming BR down, by having one team that loses a lot (e.g. all-DP Khemri) in order to get easier matches with another team. |
This is a genuine problem.
The lesson here is simple enough: If you reward people for losing games, some people will make sure that they lose games.
The same goes for bashing/not bashing. |
I don't think it's an real issue too. If someone feels like spending half the time losing, to increase a little bit his victory with another team, then he's doing a poor metagaming. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 11, 2008 - 16:22 |
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The point I am unsure of, is the overall BR BBR per coach.
It's been more obvious with all the stuff about team killing but a unique ranking tend to favourise coaches that play under a certain style.
For exemple:
I started elves. I will probably have a low BBR over time hence avoid team killers. But if I create orcs, I'll likely will have an average score.
If I take a weak roster (say goblins for exemple) and play with darkies which I master better, I ll probably be average. But, IMO, the darkies shouldn't have easier games likewise the flings harder ones.
Hence, if I favourise one playstyle, I ll have more suitable matchups than if I try a little bit of everything.
The point I am unsure of, is whether it's better to be into the averages or more extreme. |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 11, 2008 - 16:34 |
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I loathe the BBR system (as it relates to bashing/casualties) with a passion, the same way I despise the Ulthuan Invitational qualifiers. This is just another way of coddling the elf teams (that are not underperforming by any standards).
Like sk8bcn says, it also introduces a strange metagaming element. If I play both Claw-Chaos and Wood Elves, I will have a different set of matches for both the Chaos and the Wood Elf team than I would if I played only one of them. Thus, if I want softer matches with my Wood Elves, it will affect my team selection for [B]. This both odd and undesirable.
If we absolutely have to have a bashing-balancer (which I really, really don't think we need it), at least have it on a team level rather than a coach level. And the same goes for win-balancing - if I'm outstanding with Elves (I'm not) and suck with Ogres (who doesn't?), playing both teams will net me easier matches with the Wood Elves and harder matches with the Ogres as compared to just playing one of the teams. This is completely counter-intuitive. |
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Last edited by johan on %b %11, %2008 - %18:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
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clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 11, 2008 - 16:53 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: |
For exemple:
I started elves. I will probably have a low BBR over time hence avoid team killers. |
Having a low BBR doesn't let you avoid team killers. It (slightly) lowers your overall 'blackbox coach strength' but if you have a winning record (likely with elves) that outweighs BBR by a factor of three. |
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westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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| Posted:
Dec 11, 2008 - 17:05 |
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| johan wrote: | | westerner wrote: | Summary of potential exploits I'm aware of:
1) Hiring multiple stars for a new team, then retiring the team after the match. |
This will not be a problem as long as Stars are correctly priced for TS. |
It's more of a metagame than TS issue. Someone blowing their money on stars to play at TS140 out of the gate, is going to have a one-shot game playstyle. This gives them an advantage over someone who invested time developing a team to TS140 (and hopes to keep playing with it), because they can take short term risks the other team can't afford long term. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2008 - 00:07 |
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Can we please look at the TS formula for all these teams using zero rerolls, plus a Leader.
I have no issue with the box being full of Khemri, Orcs, Dwarves and the likes, but this new plague of zero reroll teams trying to get the TS boost while having a reroll (leader) is a bit much. |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2008 - 04:58 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | Can we please look at the TS formula for all these teams using zero rerolls, plus a Leader.
I have no issue with the box being full of Khemri, Orcs, Dwarves and the likes, but this new plague of zero reroll teams trying to get the TS boost while having a reroll (leader) is a bit much. |
How much? (In TS bonus-cost terms)
Presenting such information might strengthen your argument. |
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Plorg
Joined: May 08, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2008 - 05:00 |
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| Christer wrote: | (explanation of sum of three different suitability fitness functions)
The chosen schedule is the one that has the highest suitability sum. |
Nice! |
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johan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2008 - 11:10 |
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| Quote: | # If the team has 0 ReRolls, subtract 10
# If the team has 1 ReRoll, subtract 5 |
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_________________
”It's very sad
To see the ancient and distinguished game that used to be
A model of decorum and tranquillity
Become like any other sport, a battleground...”
—Benny Andersson & Björn Ulvaeus, Chess |
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clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2008 - 11:16 |
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This is a small request, but can blackbox games count towards the awards in your awards tab? I thought I'd have my goblin player award  |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 15, 2008 - 11:38 |
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| clarkin wrote: | | This is a small request, but can blackbox games count towards the awards in your awards tab? I thought I'd have my goblin player award |
I asked that right away and Christer has decided against it.
For me the main reason I don't play in [B] anymore is the lack of goals. No tourneys, no awards, no medals, no BR...just an easy way to get one off games. |
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Nightbird
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 20, 2009 - 14:16 |
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1) I'd like to see the blackbox scheduler check ALL possible match-ups between coaches so that we are TRULY getting the best match-up we can between our teams. This is what the box is supposed to be & I don't mind if it takes a couple minutes to sort through it all if it's going to result in a more balanced match in the end. I was just matched w/ my skaven 122/122 against some dark elves 109/110 even though I clicked to try & play w/ my new necro 100/107 which would have been a much more balanced match-up. Also, shouldn't the scheduler have checked the team I clicked on first as it was the one I prefered to play?
2) I'd like to see a remedy for the inevitable match where TR/TS are greatly unbalanced due to your team getting thrashed the game before. For example, my high elfs which just got thrashed & are in a greaty unbalanced state of 155/117 & need a recovery match. Unfortunately recovery from this becomes very difficult in [B] w/ the handicaps. Having to possibly give out 3 handicaps (yes it's unlikely, but possible) & only having 8 players available next match doesn't seem fair or fun. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Jan 20, 2009 - 14:28 |
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My guess is that Freppa has a higher BR than you.. enough to close the gap between 3TS and 7TS. |
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Hero164
Joined: Jan 20, 2007
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| Posted:
Jan 20, 2009 - 15:05 |
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Recovery is a good point though as matching by ts means you can get the situation where your 200/130 team meets a 130/130 team. I know this happened to me the other day and with It wasnt me and morleys my already beaten up team lost 4 players before I even started. When this happens your heart just falls as you know your in for an hours kicking.
Should the scheduler not try and match TR and TS. so it checks first on TS then looks for a similar TR rather than a handicap match.
I fully accept I could have had virus and palmed coin and had the advantage but that would not have been fair either. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 20, 2009 - 15:07 |
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| Hero164 wrote: | Recovery is a good point though as matching by ts means you can get the situation where your 200/130 team meets a 130/130 team. I know this happened to me the other day and with It wasnt me and morleys my already beaten up team lost 4 players before I even started. When this happens your heart just falls as you know your in for an hours kicking.
Should the scheduler not try and match TR and TS. so it checks first on TS then looks for a similar TR rather than a handicap match.
I fully accept I could have had virus and palmed coin and had the advantage but that would not have been fair either. |
Handicaps count for 5 TS. So technically the perfect matchup would be 200/130 vs 130/115. |
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