JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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 Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:19 |
 
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | SillySod wrote: |
Teams below nuffles sacred 11 tend to be a bit over-rated by the TS formula because they are so vulnerable to being fouled etc. I know the formula already takes some account for it but perhaps having less than 11 players ought to be a bigger factor. |
I think the TS for teams under 11 players is about right.
A killed team of 8 players, can destroy a rookie team of 11 players at the same rating. |
ps: apart from the joke, I disagree. The numerical advantage is a very important factor. If the 11 men team receives first half, he gets blocks on LoS and a boot without the eye... having a pretty good chance to start the attack 11 vs 7... and there's little skill that can cope up with a 4-men advantage... |
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Cris
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:28 |
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<deathgerbil> dude circular, whats your problem?
<CircularLogic> I have my problems with people, who play low-CR coaches with superior teams
<deathgerbil> that coming from you circular is kind of funny. your cr = 179.68. your last opponent's cr = 135.94
<Rijssiej> lol
<Wizard> hehe
<deathgerbil> and i'm sure this is kind of a superior team too http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=909337
<Wizard> gerbil 1 - circular 0
<Synn> pwned!
<Imerikol> busted
<deathgerbil> 148 str orcs vs noob chaos. why not play some halfling next time.
<arktoris> wow, laying down the smack
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Last edited by Cris on %b %14, %2008 - %10:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:28 |
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The situation reminded me of the time, when Blizzard changed their AMM-system (AMM = automated match making) to take into account the skill of the player. Each player had an official rank that was determined by exp points you could win and an invisible level, where the system estimated the player to be. The skill of a player determined by comparing a player with all the players he has won/lost against. The system then tried to match primarily by this skill level.
The result was the creation of so called 'loss bots'. A few competitive players would run scripts that would enter AMM matched games and conceed right away. They would just let this script run for a few hours, amass about 200 losses and then start to play. Those losses would of course look nasty on the win/loss ratio, but as a player starts without exp points (which determine the ranking) they couldn`t lose any in the beginning. And when they started playing they were automatically matched up with the weakest available who they completly dominated. They were earning exp-points faster than their skill-level adjusted and even when they should have played the other big dogs, they were just facing mediocre players until they hit the top of the league. Well timed, their estimated skill level would catch up at the end of a season, where they actually took a title or two. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:38 |
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| Cris wrote: | -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ancient chat quote... funny though to see the errors of my early ways..
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Nice one keeping this for over 3 years... I was a little more rightous back then. But I don`t know.. what has this to do with the matchmaking in [B]?
And btw:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&showstats=1&team_id=274186
You know this saying that involves the words pot, cettle and black? |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:42 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | DukeTyrion wrote: | | SillySod wrote: |
Teams below nuffles sacred 11 tend to be a bit over-rated by the TS formula because they are so vulnerable to being fouled etc. I know the formula already takes some account for it but perhaps having less than 11 players ought to be a bigger factor. |
I think the TS for teams under 11 players is about right.
A killed team of 8 players, can destroy a rookie team of 11 players at the same rating. |
ps: apart from the joke, I disagree. The numerical advantage is a very important factor. If the 11 men team receives first half, he gets blocks on LoS and a boot without the eye... having a pretty good chance to start the attack 11 vs 7... and there's little skill that can cope up with a 4-men advantage... |
I entered a Rookie smack with 8 Skilled Humans and won the first round 5-0 against a full Khemri side.
The second round I had 5 players and drew 3-3 against Orcs.
I admit the 3 players I had left for the final didn't do too well, but I believe that a few skills (say 3 x block or dodge on the LoS) can more than make up for a lost player or so.
I am not saying the formula is exact, it could probably be adjusted a little, but I do not think it is completely borked. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:48 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | I entered a Rookie smack with 8 Skilled Humans and won the first round 5-0 against a full Khemri side.
The second round I had 5 players and drew 3-3 against Orcs.
I admit the 3 players I had left for the final didn't do too well, but I believe that a few skills (say 3 x block or dodge on the LoS) can more than make up for a lost player or so. |
Yeah but we're talking about the Latino Flying Jellyfish here... The spirit is worth at least +30 ts !!!
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:55 |
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| JanMattys wrote: | | DukeTyrion wrote: | I entered a Rookie smack with 8 Skilled Humans and won the first round 5-0 against a full Khemri side.
The second round I had 5 players and drew 3-3 against Orcs.
I admit the 3 players I had left for the final didn't do too well, but I believe that a few skills (say 3 x block or dodge on the LoS) can more than make up for a lost player or so. |
Yeah but we're talking about the Latino Flying Jellyfish here... The spirit is worth at least +30 ts !!!
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Fair enough, point conceeded  |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:57 |
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Anyway, moving the testing of Blackbox forward, I now have my BR dumping team ready for action \o/
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=509645
The BR droppers will pave the way for my other teams to get normal games
(N.B. Before anyone starts shooting, please remember this is a test system, and I am helping with the testing ) |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 10:59 |
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But Duke.. where are the mummies? You can ignore the ball even with them.. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 11:00 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | | But Duke.. where are the mummies? You can ignore the ball even with them.. |
Yep, it's a long and honored tradition!  |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 11:04 |
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Once I get into a game, I always try to win. It's a bit of a weakness.
Even my no DP, no Mummy, No wight undead ended up with an even record (35/15/35) or such.
So, the only way to handicap myself properly, is to ensure that I cannot destroy the other team by accident. |
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Optihut
Joined: Dec 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 11:06 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | | Once I get into a game, I always try to win. It's a bit of a weakness. |
Most excellent! You might end up not dropping BR at all, muhahahaha |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 11:12 |
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| Optihut wrote: | | DukeTyrion wrote: | | Once I get into a game, I always try to win. It's a bit of a weakness. |
Most excellent! You might end up not dropping BR at all, muhahahaha |
That would be epic fail...
I guess if that`s true I just have to retire all teams that remotely try to win and go for chaos with MB/claw as first skill across the board maybe mixed in 2-3 DPs. Followed by block/RSC and then just ignore the ball. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Nov 14, 2008 - 18:57 |
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| DukeTyrion wrote: | I entered a Rookie smack with 8 Skilled Humans and won the first round 5-0 against a full Khemri side.
The second round I had 5 players and drew 3-3 against Orcs.
I admit the 3 players I had left for the final didn't do too well, but I believe that a few skills (say 3 x block or dodge on the LoS) can more than make up for a lost player or so.
I am not saying the formula is exact, it could probably be adjusted a little, but I do not think it is completely borked. |
The formula is probably correct for sub-TR100 teams but as soon as people start getting DPs and reserves of their own then the formula goes out the window a bit. |
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Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 15, 2008 - 00:08 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | | Optihut wrote: | | DukeTyrion wrote: | | Once I get into a game, I always try to win. It's a bit of a weakness. |
Most excellent! You might end up not dropping BR at all, muhahahaha |
That would be epic fail...
I guess if that`s true I just have to retire all teams that remotely try to win and go for chaos with MB/claw as first skill across the board maybe mixed in 2-3 DPs. Followed by block/RSC and then just ignore the ball. |
Ok, plan back-fired ... my half Zombie, half Skeleton team went and won their first match  |
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