FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

SillySod

Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 16:17

sk8bcn wrote:

DonTomaso wrote:

The problem should be fairly easy to solve. If the BlackBox checks the Blacklist, the problem will sort itself out. Or at least _you_ don't have to face the same opponent twice.

(...)

Then again, someone might blacklist everybody with a CR above 150, but that, really, is their loss.

Simply, limit the blacklist to 10 names so you can't metagame by blacklisting every good coach around and that's a good way to sort this one out.

I think you can limit this to just 3 or 5 coaches and it will do the trick. With 3 or 5 names people will use this list soley to avoid the games they really dont like, there really can be two outcomes:
1) if "play to kill" gamers really are that bad then they will end up on the lists (problem solved)
2) if they dont end up on the lists then its not a big enough problem to need fixing (problem solved).

If anyone manages to turn up on those lists enough that it affects their games rate in [B]... wow, just wow Smile

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westerner

Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 16:18

Calcium wrote:

Ash wrote:

Actualy... you don t have to play every game in the box. You still can dodge game.

Thing is you have, for the first time, the obligation to dodge it using the rule : concession.

So we have a rule to avoid kill-first-and-only team and it s a good one.

UH OH. tell me this post was a joke. Otherwise you may get some 'intresting' feedback! Wink

Sadly, it's not a joke... there seems to be some coaches who feel it's OK to dodge a game in B by conceding. This was not a problem in R because all matches were by agreement.

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CircularLogic

Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 16:39

Draxus wrote:

If you can cas 16 players (no apo'ed/regened) of the opponent then they can't set up to stop you from scoring that is a valid attempt, demonstrating your NOT playing to lose

Not sure.. but I thought if you only have 2 players, then you just set up 2 on the LoS and go on. If he has no players to set up (something that has happened before afaik), then just one team sets up and the game goes on.

clarkin

Joined: Oct 15, 2007

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 18:15

Calcium wrote:

What to do about the 'KILL-FIRST' squad....more YAWN.

Seriously guys. Get a grip. I really believe that a portion of the coaches here have truly lost the plot with the whole kill over win thing.

And before I get accused of being one of the 'bashers' Check this out I gave as good as I got, and came out the other end intact(ish)

It was really fun , and covered every aspect of this wonderfull game. Bring on the DP heavy Khemri! When you mince them at their own game AND win, the bragging rights are MASSIVE

Have to agree with your last point, it IS great fun to beat them at their own game.

Plorg

Joined: May 08, 2005

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 21:03

JanMattys wrote:

Grod wrote:

Sounds like lots of halfling teams! What is wrong with coming up with fun ways of scoring? Not every one likes to foul, so now you want to ban any halfling coach who doesn't foul?

You deliberately ignored my point and you deliberately dodged my question.

The thing is that playing INTENTIONALLY in a way that diverges from the basic premise of the game (i.e. to win), ('m not talking about taking a gamble in order to have future advantage in winning, like handoffing to a BoB, but blatantly choosing a sub-par way of playing because your goal is NOT the win - for example writing HELLO in halfling letters all over the pitch before turn 16) is against any competitive spirit you can think of.

And Fumbbl is by definition (i.e. it is written in the BASIC RULES of the site) a competitive league.
"FUMBBL is a competition league" (Point 2 of the Code of Conduct of this site)

JanMattys,
Would you advocate banning Gary_Gygax for playing teams that focus on TTM instead of more reliable scoring methods?

Britnoth

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 21:30

CircularLogic wrote:

PeteW wrote:

So what if people kill your team and you get an easy win?

If you want to team build, go back to cherry picking in [R]. [B] is about winning, at any cost. If your team gets mauled then you get a lower TS game next round, no big deal. And if some losers want to play to kill then that's fine by me as I get an easy win out of it.

So, I repeat my original point: If you don;t want to get beat up by bashy teams with bashy skills then go and cherrypick in [R]. If someone chooses to foul first and ignore the ball then that's their choice. Remember, we all love paulhicks and he has been doing this for years.

/me hands out tissues for the wimps to dry their tears with

Or you can just do the concession thingy, if your lizzies draw mean orcs...

\o/ \o/ \o/

@Plorg + Jan:

No, it is about trying to win with a different style. TTM touchdowns are still touchdowns, fouls are not touchdowns.

Example: I spectate a well known coach, it is 1-1 in the 2nd half and he kicked. his opponent plays his turn 16, and he is left with his player with the ball, 1 square from the TD zone. He doesnt need to make any rolls to score.

Making blocks in this situation is playstyle: There is the risk of a double skull, or quad skull if you have a reroll, but you can gain 2 spp from block casualties so your team can be improved by blocking before you score.

Instead, he surrounds an opposing player and fouls it, with the eye on him. Naturally he is spotted and argue fails.

He wouldnt change his team in any way by fouling, no spp, he already had 2 cas for fan factor, he needed to make no further rolls to score and win the game. Instead he chooses to only draw the game.

When I filed a ticket, I was told intentionally not playing to score was 'playstyle' and so perfectly okay... so no, this is not a competitive league.

Yuri_levich

Joined: Oct 20, 2006

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 22:35

Maybe Blackbox system must be diverted in 2 divisions: basher teams (dwarves, Chaos, ogre, khemri...) and fair play teams(elves, stunty, humans...). BlackBox and WhiteBox!! XD

Plueschopath

Joined: Oct 25, 2008

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 23:00

DonTomaso wrote:

The problem should be fairly easy to solve. If the BlackBox checks the Blacklist, the problem will sort itself out. Or at least _you_ don't have to face the same opponent twice.

If you Blacklist a player, you should not be set up to play vs them. And if you blacklist them because they play to kill, foul every turn, play naked, crossdress or are just quiet should not matter.
Players blacklisted by a majority will find it difficult to get games, and might or might not change their (in others opinion) evil ways.

The point is that _you_ will not have to endure what you don't want again.

Then again, someone might blacklist everybody with a CR above 150, but that, really, is their loss.

Well... great, after that feature I blacklist all rather active BB-Coaches who have either only or mainly bashy teams and elfbowl myself up to the top. Sounds like a great idea

[/irony mode off]

Calcium

Joined: Apr 08, 2007

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 23:03

Yuri_levich wrote:

Maybe Blackbox system must be diverted in 2 divisions: basher teams (dwarves, Chaos, ogre, khemri...) and fair play teams(elves, stunty, humans...). BlackBox and WhiteBox!! XD

Fair play teams? lol. You obviously haven't seenmy human team, to Boldly Go play!

I bash the hell outta Khemri for FUN!

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paulhicks

Joined: Jul 19, 2004

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 23:06

Britnoth wrote:

CircularLogic wrote:

PeteW wrote:

So what if people kill your team and you get an easy win?

If you want to team build, go back to cherry picking in [R]. [B] is about winning, at any cost. If your team gets mauled then you get a lower TS game next round, no big deal. And if some losers want to play to kill then that's fine by me as I get an easy win out of it.

So, I repeat my original point: If you don;t want to get beat up by bashy teams with bashy skills then go and cherrypick in [R]. If someone chooses to foul first and ignore the ball then that's their choice. Remember, we all love paulhicks and he has been doing this for years.

/me hands out tissues for the wimps to dry their tears with

Or you can just do the concession thingy, if your lizzies draw mean orcs...

\o/ \o/ \o/

@Plorg + Jan:

No, it is about trying to win with a different style. TTM touchdowns are still touchdowns, fouls are not touchdowns.

Example: I spectate a well known coach, it is 1-1 in the 2nd half and he kicked. his opponent plays his turn 16, and he is left with his player with the ball, 1 square from the TD zone. He doesnt need to make any rolls to score.

Making blocks in this situation is playstyle: There is the risk of a double skull, or quad skull if you have a reroll, but you can gain 2 spp from block casualties so your team can be improved by blocking before you score.

Instead, he surrounds an opposing player and fouls it, with the eye on him. Naturally he is spotted and argue fails.

He wouldnt change his team in any way by fouling, no spp, he already had 2 cas for fan factor, he needed to make no further rolls to score and win the game. Instead he chooses to only draw the game.

When I filed a ticket, I was told intentionally not playing to score was 'playstyle' and so perfectly okay... so no, this is not a competitive league.

but i still beat you 2-0 when we played Razz

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=match&op=view&id=2226413

which was seriously good luck on my part admitedly but i had to point it out anyway cuz im a git Very Happy

Like i said to you at the time i respected the fact that you were upfront with me before hand about making the report. I don't see why you wouldnt use my name in your post now

Edit: where you say i chose to draw the game thats not quite true btw. In the example your talking about it wasn't the ball carrier that i fouled with on t16 (it would have been if he was the only player available... but it wasn't) so in fact i choose to take the RISK of only getting a draw by throwing a foul (which wouldn't affect game dynamic... only my stats and my fun dynamic) with the eye on me before scoring. If i hadn't been sent of i'd have scored. As you say it wasn't the most competative thing to do but given the choice of changing the way i play or never playing again i'm afraid i'd have to choose the second option.

I still say you shoulda tried the petition btw Very Happy

Edit again: p.s
i meant to ask you at the time. If i had a player who was already a legend ad couldn't improve anymore but i was trying to make him the highest passer of all time and i tried a "pointless" 50/50 chance pass rather than the foul.... would it honestly still have been such a big deal for you?

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Last edited by paulhicks on %b %12, %2008 - %23:%Dec; edited 3 times in total

Mr_Foulscumm

Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 23:07

Yuri_levich wrote:

Maybe Blackbox system must be diverted in 2 divisions: basher teams (dwarves, Chaos, ogre, khemri...) and fair play teams(elves, stunty, humans...). BlackBox and WhiteBox!! XD

You're being full of dumbs! Stop it.

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funnyfingers

Joined: Nov 13, 2005

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 23:31

If Blockbox is a competitive league, teams should have guidelines to stay in. Say after 10 games, a win percentage of 50%. Win percentage could include ties counting towards it.

Instead of a set win percentage it could be a percentile. For example at the end of a period of time all teams in the 10th percentile of wins are retired.

Mr_Foulscumm

Joined: Mar 05, 2005

Posted: Dec 12, 2008 - 23:36

Why can't you guys just play the game?

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arw

Joined: Jan 07, 2007

Posted: Dec 13, 2008 - 00:19

I once had a funny game vs the "Ball Ignorers"(Chaos). They actually used their only 2AG Beastmen to pick up the ball ^^
However - Those guys weren't as brutal as their name. And I don't have the impression that "killing first" is a common phenomenon anyway. Elfbowling was tolerated in R. Now I'll tolerate "killing only" till I know better Wink

shadow46x2

Joined: Nov 22, 2003

Posted: Dec 13, 2008 - 00:35

can we please put a moratorium on telling people how to play in B?....

i'm getting tired of seeing the same exact thread with different wording come up three times a week

--j

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