| Poll |
| What should be done about kill-first [B] teams that make killing their first priority, with scoring a distant second? |
| 1) Nothing - it's a valid strategy |
|
44% |
[ 116 ] |
| 2) Nothing yet - i'm not convinced it's a big deal |
|
21% |
[ 56 ] |
| 3) Contain it - Tweak the scheduling formula and/or incent coaches to win |
|
21% |
[ 55 ] |
| 4) Ban it - it's illegal |
|
12% |
[ 33 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 260 |
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DonTomaso
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
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 Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 00:47 |
 
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| Plueschopath wrote: | | DonTomaso wrote: | The problem should be fairly easy to solve. If the BlackBox checks the Blacklist, the problem will sort itself out. Or at least _you_ don't have to face the same opponent twice.
If you Blacklist a player, you should not be set up to play vs them. And if you blacklist them because they play to kill, foul every turn, play naked, crossdress or are just quiet should not matter.
Players blacklisted by a majority will find it difficult to get games, and might or might not change their (in others opinion) evil ways.
The point is that _you_ will not have to endure what you don't want again.
Then again, someone might blacklist everybody with a CR above 150, but that, really, is their loss. |
Well... great, after that feature I blacklist all rather active BB-Coaches who have either only or mainly bashy teams and elfbowl myself up to the top. Sounds like a great idea
[/irony mode off] |
Well, that should be your choice. I know you were ironic, but it is a valid point.
One should be allowed to blacklist anyone and everyone. If you go through the work required, you have deserved what good you may think could come from it.
Then again, you'd miss out on a lot of great coaches... but that too, is your choice. |
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Be careful, my common sense is tingling! |
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seanh1986
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 00:50 |
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| Vol wrote: | Bashy teams can play bashy without being very heavy DP and without completely forgetting about the ball, so I'm with Jan about your point Grod, but for different reasons.
In the box now, I've gone against two DP heavy Khemri teams. One had more DPs than necessary and completely ignored the ball. The other had enough DPs to get the job done (after all, only one player can foul per turn, so there is a point at which you can have too many DPs), and stopped fouling when it was no longer necessary.
I beat the former and hated the match, even though I suffered no permanent injuries. I lost to the latter and didn't hate the match, even though I had three players killed and a fourth pushed into retirement.
I don't mind when it is used as a strategy. I would like to avoid the kids that use it as a goal. |
Woot! I was the latter  .
Ok in all seriousness... Those teams that people are complaining about actually DO have some wins! So it's not like once they clear the pitch they will be refusing to score... They are just focusing "too much" on casualties and clearing the pitch... But on some level they are attempting to win the game if they even have any Wins... Now, If you have a team which is winless after 50 games and even after clearing the pitch doesn't attempt to pickup the ball and run it in...Then that's a real problem.
But they have wins...so clearly on some level they are attempting to win...no? |
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seanh1986
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 00:55 |
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| DonTomaso wrote: | | Plueschopath wrote: | | DonTomaso wrote: | The problem should be fairly easy to solve. If the BlackBox checks the Blacklist, the problem will sort itself out. Or at least _you_ don't have to face the same opponent twice.
If you Blacklist a player, you should not be set up to play vs them. And if you blacklist them because they play to kill, foul every turn, play naked, crossdress or are just quiet should not matter.
Players blacklisted by a majority will find it difficult to get games, and might or might not change their (in others opinion) evil ways.
The point is that _you_ will not have to endure what you don't want again.
Then again, someone might blacklist everybody with a CR above 150, but that, really, is their loss. |
Well... great, after that feature I blacklist all rather active BB-Coaches who have either only or mainly bashy teams and elfbowl myself up to the top. Sounds like a great idea
[/irony mode off] |
Well, that should be your choice. I know you were ironic, but it is a valid point.
One should be allowed to blacklist anyone and everyone. If you go through the work required, you have deserved what good you may think could come from it.
Then again, you'd miss out on a lot of great coaches... but that too, is your choice. |
If you wanna elfbowl you're way up to the top...Don't play [B]... |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 01:01 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | | PeteW wrote: | So what if people kill your team and you get an easy win?
If you want to team build, go back to cherry picking in [R]. [B] is about winning, at any cost. If your team gets mauled then you get a lower TS game next round, no big deal. And if some losers want to play to kill then that's fine by me as I get an easy win out of it.
So, I repeat my original point: If you don;t want to get beat up by bashy teams with bashy skills then go and cherrypick in [R]. If someone chooses to foul first and ignore the ball then that's their choice. Remember, we all love paulhicks and he has been doing this for years.
/me hands out tissues for the wimps to dry their tears with |
Or you can just do the concession thingy, if your lizzies draw mean orcs... |
OOoooo - handnags at dawn from circular_logic!!!
Actually circ, if you did you research and asked questions before abusing me, you'd discover that the "mean" orcs had only 3 skills, which were SF on one borc, block on another and block on a lino. Whereas I had lizzies with 6 skills on sauri. Scared? No way. Guests turning up just as I press activate? yes. and with the current set up there is no way to reschedule for later, so I apologised to my opponent and conceded.
Circ - I do hope you posted as a joke, and not seriously... |
_________________
"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 02:34 |
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| PeteW wrote: |
Actually circ, if you did you research and asked questions before abusing me, you'd discover that the "mean" orcs had only 3 skills, which were SF on one borc, block on another and block on a lino. Whereas I had lizzies with 6 skills on sauri. Scared? No way. Guests turning up just as I press activate? yes. and with the current set up there is no way to reschedule for later, so I apologised to my opponent and conceded. |
Well... in this case I take back the implied meaning.. even though it would be an extremely hard case for an admin to judge.
But the bolded part got me curious... how do you research what skills a team had for a match long ago? Any links, where I can see the roster used back then to tell me, that it wasn`t tackle/MB on 3 blitzers to kill the skinks? |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 02:58 |
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Interesting, not sure, but I think killing someone is preferable to fisting them. |
_________________
Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005 |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 03:53 |
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| Plorg wrote: | | JanMattys wrote: | | Grod wrote: | | Sounds like lots of halfling teams! What is wrong with coming up with fun ways of scoring? Not every one likes to foul, so now you want to ban any halfling coach who doesn't foul? |
You deliberately ignored my point and you deliberately dodged my question.
The thing is that playing INTENTIONALLY in a way that diverges from the basic premise of the game (i.e. to win), ('m not talking about taking a gamble in order to have future advantage in winning, like handoffing to a BoB, but blatantly choosing a sub-par way of playing because your goal is NOT the win - for example writing HELLO in halfling letters all over the pitch before turn 16) is against any competitive spirit you can think of.
And Fumbbl is by definition (i.e. it is written in the BASIC RULES of the site) a competitive league.
"FUMBBL is a competition league" (Point 2 of the Code of Conduct of this site) |
JanMattys,
Would you advocate banning Gary_Gygax for playing teams that focus on TTM instead of more reliable scoring methods? |
If Gary tried to pull a goblin to 250 TTM Tds in DivB by playing fake matches, I would be against it, yes.
This is the same reason why I respect PaulHicks a lot for not entering DivB with the goal of a 1000 fouls DP leaping Troll team in mind.
You all know I love Paul, but it wouldn't sound right to me. I suppose he knows that it would be out of line, and self-excluded himself from the blackbox.
Why? BECAUSE HE WANTED TO PLAY THE SAME GAME AS HIS OPPONENTS, SO HE DECIDED TO STICK TO R WHERE HE COUL ARRANGE HIS GAMES.
All those out there who always use the Paulhicks example to defend dedicated teamkillers with little to no interest in the Td outcome of the match, should just stop a moment and ask themselves why Paulhicks is not in DivB.
The answer is that Paul is just smarter and more sensible than the lot of you.
ps: Paul, if I got you wrong feel free to slap me in the face and correct me. |
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Ash
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 09:56 |
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| westerner wrote: | | Calcium wrote: | | Ash wrote: | Actualy... you don t have to play every game in the box. You still can dodge game.
Thing is you have, for the first time, the obligation to dodge it using the rule : concession.
So we have a rule to avoid kill-first-and-only team and it s a good one. |
UH OH. tell me this post was a joke. Otherwise you may get some 'intresting' feedback!  |
Sadly, it's not a joke... there seems to be some coaches who feel it's OK to dodge a game in B by conceding. This was not a problem in R because all matches were by agreement. |
of course it s not a joke. I m not saying I m fan of it, I m just saying there is a rule about it, and I find it really penalizing by itself for most roster. So why not applying it? Because it would spoil your killing fun?
What s the fun of a killing-first-and-only team : make blocks, make cas, foul. Alright, I have nothing about it.
What s the fun of a I-want-to-win team : having a competitive game and win. Ah... here is the issue. It s not a competitive game, they won turn 1. So, they will have their team niggled which is not an issue by itself, at least not for me BUT they will not have their fun as they won t get any winning opposition.
I think I concede once in Box, it was against some amazon after it was my third game in the afternoon against amazon at low TR without any tackle... I was pissed, I went to something else : no big deal.
On the other hand I got one game not too far away with my dark elf against chaos. After turn 2 I got a "Well, you won the game but I don t know if you will be able to keep the team". As it was low TR game, it wasn t that hard to manage him. And he was not really efficient as I outluck him and outbash him. I m lucky, I have fun taunting my opponment so I got "some" fun in this game... but really not a lot, he didn t try to touch the ball at any time, not even him. |
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Ash |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 10:20 |
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| shadow46x2 wrote: | can we please put a moratorium on telling people how to play in B?....
i'm getting tired of seeing the same exact thread with different wording come up three times a week
--j |
Yes. Couldn't agree more. |
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f0rd
Joined: Jun 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 11:31 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: | | ... how do you research what skills a team had for a match long ago? |
Spec that game or in this instance spec next game, and deduct the skills he might have gotten from the 2Mvps |
_________________
Chuck Norris can divide by zero. |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 12:18 |
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| PeteW wrote: | | with the current set up there is no way to reschedule for later |
It is possible to reschedule for later. Your teams only become unscheduled when you request it from an admin so you can always ask your opponent if they would be ok with rescheduling the game, you can also continue to activate your other teams so neither of you would be locking yourselves out of the box - just that team.
Of course I have no problem with a concession in that situation either although I'm sure we're about to be told how harmful it is  |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 16:07 |
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I do think that a short blacklist option is the best way to sort it out, IMO.
I haven't seen any argument against yet. |
_________________
Join NL Raises from the Ashes |
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Calcium
Joined: Apr 08, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 16:17 |
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no argument against it? the blacklist was created to keep track of players you dont like to play against. It was not created to dodge the tough games.
blacklist solution = Bash dodging. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 16:18 |
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Where, If you can blacklist 5 guys, I don't see how you can dodge tough games in general. |
_________________
Join NL Raises from the Ashes |
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PeteW
Joined: Aug 05, 2005
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| Posted:
Dec 13, 2008 - 16:22 |
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| SillySod wrote: | | PeteW wrote: | | with the current set up there is no way to reschedule for later |
It is possible to reschedule for later. Your teams only become unscheduled when you request it from an admin so you can always ask your opponent if they would be ok with rescheduling the game, you can also continue to activate your other teams so neither of you would be locking yourselves out of the box - just that team.
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Oh cool! Thx Sod. As I said though,t hey were at the door ringing the bell so I had no time to ask about it! Good to know though so that RL doesn;t have to intrude on BB.... |
_________________
"Jesus loves me this I know, 'cos my Bible tells me so." MrMojo - where did you go? |
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