Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Nov 22, 2003 - 04:06 |
 
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Ok my take is First roster is flawed as you need skills choices for the giant rats off doubles (this is not even talking about the RSC other people have given enough input on that if you want more opinions about RSC as a starting skill in stunty see the Vampflings debate)
second roster by browwnrob_ni is pretty good however AG4 stunty is too powerful at low - mid TR (you could just walk up the pitch) and with 6 of them move 8 each you would have a great passing game(unusual in stunty i admit however you would be almost unbeatable) either reduce their numbers or their armor or both to give the rest if the stunty teams a chance (perhaps even remove dodge at the start)
the third roster by Jugular is too strong (up to 16 ST 2 block tackle players at high TR [think what that would do to a stunty team] with dodge and dauntless and multiblock [combines with dauntless] as good doubles)
OK Guidelines for an generally good stunty roster
1) minimal access to general skills
2) AG 3 or less unless you have only a few of them (1-3)
3) few players with more than 2 ST
4) minimal killer skills at start (RSC, CLAW, MB no more than 3-4 players on the team)
5) always ensure your players have 7 skill choices to make if they dont get doubles
If any one can think of anything i missed feel free to add it
Michael_Warblade |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 22, 2003 - 21:17 |
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| Quote: |
0-1 Rat Ogre 6 5 3 8 Big Guy, Frenzy, Mighty Blow Prehensile Tail, Wild Animal (GSP)
0-2 Nightrunner 8 1 3 5 Dodge, Stunty, Two Heads, Regenerate, Undead(AP) (could be reduced to Ma 7)
0-16 Giant Rat 6 2 2 7 Stunty, No Hands, Dodge (AP)
0-2 Assasins 6 2 2 6 Stunty Dodge Poisoned Dagger (AP)
Rerolls 70k
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well taking michael warbaldes advice i thought i would reduce the number of nightrunners and their armour. i also reduced their agility but gave them two heads instead, this will result in the same dodging ability but inferior ball handling skills. They are allowed 2 nightrunners and are given regenerate and undead (no apoth for the nightrunners) so would make them less potent at any time and longetivity too. they could have 2 nightrunners this way.
I know what the response will be to this post... "Regenerate is stupid on skaven as they dont regenerate!" but this clan of rats may have discovered a new form of warpstone (interesting fluff) which gives their players regenerating ability (and only given to the nightrunners), however they would lose the ability for an apothecary to be used on nightrunners as normal medicines no longer have an effect on them... this special warpstone isnt very common so it is only possible to use it on 2 players at a time but there is plenty of other warpstone kicking about.
i guess more fluff could be that this new warpstone changes a giant rat into a nightrunner which you can buy (the 0-2 position). this warpstone was very good for nightrunners coaches as their teams hardly ever scored!!!
Another thing people may object to is that they are given the undead skill.... well the only reason they have it is to disable them from using the apothecary. Undead is what the client recognises and not "cannot use apoths cos he is eating nasty warpstone!"
Dont flame me for this... im only trying to suggest ideas... 
PS: I think this team should be galled "Nightrunners" as that is what the team is all about!!! its a great name too |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 22, 2003 - 21:26 |
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if the nightrunners are too strong still then they can be reduced in speed or dodge can be removed from them... |
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alterationX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 00:42 |
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hm, i don't like the idea of having a lot of real rats on the field. and 2 night runners only isnt enough at all. if i were the opponent i'd take them out within the first two turns. also what are the giant rats good for? they cannot really dodge, cannot handle the ball, and cant block any better than a freakin halfling. and two poisoned daggers arent really a substitute for a second big guy (the rat ogre ain't that good). |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 01:04 |
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| Traitor wrote: | AV 10? And strength 4? Plus RCS and frenzy, and making them 0-2? I can see your point in that my design might be underpowered(since it'd cause alot of turnovers), but going completely in the other direction is not the answer. Rat swarms should be an auxiliary unit, not the all-smiting, flestearing, horrible monster of uber-doom. Stunties generally have poor armor and strength, and with those rules, the rats would be likely to cause 1 casualty per turn.
Maybe add block to my design to make them somewhat harder on the offence, and cause fewer turnovers, but that's really all I really want to give them. The focus of the skaven team should be scoring touchdowns while rats and the rat ogre distract the opposing team. It's not to slaughter the entire opposing team because a bunch of angry rats are more dangerous than a black orc jumping up and down your head. |
you've never player with wild animals before have you? |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Guest
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 01:11 |
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maybe the rats could be made beefier... thick skull might help keep them on the pitch longer. i guess they could have ag3 as they have no hands... i deliberatley made the team weak because it is easier to add things to the roster to make it stronger. another rat ogre could be added if needed. assasins are needed as it adds fluff to the team. even more nightrunners could be added to the roster... 3 or 4 even. the only purpose of the rats is to act as cannon fodder while the nightrunners score. foul appearance would also be good in the role of protecting the ball carriers...
| Quote: |
0-2 Rat Ogre 6 5 3 8 Big Guy, Frenzy, Mighty Blow Prehensile Tail, Wild Animal (GSP)
0-4 Nightrunner 8 1 3 5 Dodge, Stunty, Two Heads, Regenerate, Undead(AP) (could be reduced to Ma 7)
0-16 Giant Rat 4 2 3 7 Stunty, No Hands, Dodge, Foul Appearance, Thick skull(AP)
0-2 Assasins 6 2 2 6 Stunty Dodge Poisoned Dagger (AP)
Rerolls = 70k
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i realise that this roster may be too powerful now but hey! that is what this place is for! they dont even have to be skaven either... they could be some crazy new race... we arent bound by the world of warhammer! (fairies and gnomes) |
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Traitor
Joined: Nov 18, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 07:12 |
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| Quote: | | you've never player with wild animals before have you? |
Not much, no. Im far more familiar with the fluff than with the actual game mechanics, but I do the best I can to offer suggestings based on that.
However, Im picking up that fluff is considered something to work around, not work with, and nothing good will come out of beating this dead horse(or dead rat, perhaps), so I think I'll just go play the game instead. |
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 19:12 |
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How about this for a team....
0-1 Rat Ogre
0-1 Rat Swarm Ma 6 St 4 Ag 1 AV 10 Wild Animal, RSC, Regen, Big Guy, Star Player 100k.
0-4 Nightrunners Ma 8 St 1 Ag 3 AV 5 Dodge, Stunty, Two Heads (A,P) 80k.
0-16 Plagued Slave Ma 5 St 2 Ag 3 Av 6 Foul appearance, Stunty (A,P) 50k.
ReRolls 70k
Rat Swarm weak enough as WA without block and 1 str less than other BG's (plus the team will only have 2 BG's). Little access to General skills, and good development possibilities. I thought to add a nice flavour to the team Foul Appearance would be an interesting choice, while balanced well by the lower AV.
I thought this would be nicely weak enough but if too weak either raising the Rat Swarms Str or making them 0-2 would provide a bit more strength, OR alternatively bringing the slaves AV up to 7. How about soon we start a little bit of playtesting and open a poll for the wide variety of ideas that have been floating around here. |
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asperon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 19:49 |
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Well, the problem is, that his would probably be a balanced team:
0-2 Rat Ogre 130000 6 5 3 8 Big Guy, Frenzy, Mighty Blow, Prehensile Tail, Wild Animal G S Ph
0-4 Nightrunner 70000 8 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty A Ph
0-16 Slaves 40000 5 2 3 6 A Ph
But, this is just the ordinary skaven roster "stuntyfied". The idea behind the rats was to create a team that played different.
Having only 8 (6 runners + 2 RO) that can handle the ball gives them a problem. Making the runners weaker then the average
stunty gives the another. That is good. The problem is that the team needs a strenght to. The RSC+Frenzy was just a idea
(prob a bad one at that), but they need a edge. I kinda like the idea with the Moulder clan breeding team. Then the runners
would be changed into handlers, and the team would be a bashier the the normal skaven team. Another path to go is the
FA pestillence path (ie, change the runners into plauge guys) prob with frenzy. Slaves are ok, but as i said in my second post,
the team have to have their own way of playing (like the vamplings do) or its a lost effort. |
_________________
anything with two wounds will have a lot going for it |
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thmbscrws
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 20:07 |
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I'm sorry guys but a str 4 wild animal that will never get block or pro is completely unplayable. I don't see the need for it when the rats already have a perfectly good big boy in the rat ogre. For theme reasons you could call it Clan Moulder Skaven instead of ratlings. Moulder being the most horibly mutated skaven clan and also the one with the most acess to rat ogres and giant rats and other assorted monstrositites. Also skaven in warhammer have acess to a wide variety of strange weapons like ratling guns and warp fire throwers so it might be fun to try an incorporate secret weapons that reflect that. So here is my roster idea.
0-2 Rat Ogre Ma 6 St 5 Ag 3 Av8 Wild animal, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail, Big Guy, Mighty Blow (G,S) 130k
0-4 Nightrunners Ma 8 St 1 Ag 3 AV 6 Dodge, Stunty, Two Heads (A,P)
0-2 Ratling Gun Crews Ma6 St 2 Ag 3 Av 6 Dodge, Really Stupid, Bombs (A,Pa,P)
0-16 Moulder Slave Ma 6 St 2 Ag 3 Av 6 Dodge, Stunty (A,P)
ReRolls 60k
Definatley needs some work and I would have liked to have found a way to incorporate giant rats and beastmasters but didn't seem to be room. Having the gunners who can also serve as passers give you a unreliable but decent passing game plus some secret weapons to have fun with. Rat Ogres are far from an over powered big boy in stunty so i don't see a problem with two of them but it could be cut back to one if the nightrunners are to good at scoring to have that much bashy. The slaves have the relatively quick movement of 6 because skaven are suposed to be quick little guys and they are essentially goblins with physical traits so i'd price them aorund 50k. Well thats my first take on it any feedback is apreciated positive or negative. |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 23, 2003 - 22:54 |
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yeah Clan Moulder Slaves is better than Ratlings... ratlings are halflings in 40k |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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asperon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2003 - 12:35 |
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| thmbscrws wrote: | I'm sorry guys but a str 4 wild animal that will never get block or pro is completely unplayable. I don't see the need for it when the rats already have a perfectly good big boy in the rat ogre. For theme reasons you could call it Clan Moulder Skaven instead of ratlings. Moulder being the most horibly mutated skaven clan and also the one with the most acess to rat ogres and giant rats and other assorted monstrositites. Also skaven in warhammer have acess to a wide variety of strange weapons like ratling guns and warp fire throwers so it might be fun to try an incorporate secret weapons that reflect that. So here is my roster idea.
0-2 Rat Ogre Ma 6 St 5 Ag 3 Av8 Wild animal, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail, Big Guy, Mighty Blow (G,S) 130k
0-4 Nightrunners Ma 8 St 1 Ag 3 AV 6 Dodge, Stunty, Two Heads (A,P)
0-2 Ratling Gun Crews Ma6 St 2 Ag 3 Av 6 Dodge, Really Stupid, Bombs (A,Pa,P)
0-16 Moulder Slave Ma 6 St 2 Ag 3 Av 6 Dodge, Stunty (A,P)
ReRolls 60k
Definatley needs some work and I would have liked to have found a way to incorporate giant rats and beastmasters but didn't seem to be room. Having the gunners who can also serve as passers give you a unreliable but decent passing game plus some secret weapons to have fun with. Rat Ogres are far from an over powered big boy in stunty so i don't see a problem with two of them but it could be cut back to one if the nightrunners are to good at scoring to have that much bashy. The slaves have the relatively quick movement of 6 because skaven are suposed to be quick little guys and they are essentially goblins with physical traits so i'd price them aorund 50k. Well thats my first take on it any feedback is apreciated positive or negative. |
I dont like it, throwers in stunty should be throwing players, not the ball <g>.
Been thining about having the nightrunners as:
Nightrunners Ma 8 St 1 Ag 3 AV 6 Dodge, Stunty, Dump Off
That would give a interesting gaming options, i think ill try a team with 11 of these guys =).
On another note the change to effects this thread too, making lowlevel WA's a possibility.
perhaps:
0-2 Ratogres
0-4 Gigant Rats 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, WA No hands
1-12 Nightrunners 8 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Dump Off
Problem is that dump of might be to usefull
/asperon |
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2003 - 14:22 |
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With only AG 3 I can't see Dump-Off being a game killer, so i agree a nice idea. Still think there should be some linemen with FA or some other alternative in the team. How about a Packmaster for the Giant Rats...
0-2 Packmaster 6 3 3 7 (G) 60k
Simple but useful ..I was thinking of some kind of trident/whip idea being equivalent to a Posoned dagger but there are to many in stunty already. Just three positionals aint much for modern stunty teams. With new WA rules those Giant Rats seem much more feasible. Still thought the Rat Swarm idea was a good one though...............grumble grumble.... |
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Kheldar1982
Joined: Aug 27, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 28, 2003 - 14:51 |
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My 2 Cents to the rat swarm. Why not giving them Ball & Chain. Its normal, its a swarm none can controll him. They don't need to dodge they just divide and come together behind the opponent. They cannot be blocked (which of the 100 rats will you block) and when they come for you you have no chance, they crash into you like ball and chain. They have no tacklezone cause you can walk over them, (even flings can do that).
So why not use ball and chain. RSF can be given to them, too, but could be to hard. I think 0-1 should be ok, 0-2 perhaps.
But like stated above, just my 2 cent. |
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asperon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2003 - 19:44 |
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| Quote: |
Been thining about having the nightrunners as:
Nightrunners Ma 8 St 1 Ag 3 AV 6 Dodge, Stunty, Dump Off
That would give a interesting gaming options, i think ill try a team with 11 of these guys =).
On another note the change to effects this thread too, making lowlevel WA's a possibility.
perhaps:
0-2 Ratogres
0-4 Gigant Rats 6 3 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, WA No hands
1-12 Nightrunners 8 1 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Dump Off
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Well, i tried this out, but without the Gigant Rats, and it was kinda ok. I played a stand alone game aginst the Greenfield Grashuggers, and the Ratlings performed well. They lack a lot in hitting power, but MA 8 kinda makes up for it. I see a problem if the opponent has a lot of diving tackle/tackle, since then they wont be able to run away. To counter this either they need something that can stand the line in a stunty game (ie, either slaves (5236 Stunty Dodge) or rat (perhaps like the once above). If the runners should be 0-6 or the slaves/rats will be something for playtesting to tell.
Ideas, Comments?
/Asperon |
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