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How much are HCs worth?
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Poll
What do you think a fumbbl-HC should be worth (in TS)
I haven't read the first post yet and don't know exactly how many / which HC exist, so I can't really say.
16%
 16%  [ 12 ]
1 TS
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
2 TS
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
3 TS
17%
 17%  [ 13 ]
4 TS
6%
 6%  [ 5 ]
5 TS
42%
 42%  [ 32 ]
6 TS
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
7 TS
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
8 TS
2%
 2%  [ 2 ]
9 TS
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
10 TS
8%
 8%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 75


JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 16:00 Reply with quote Back to top
treborius wrote:
JanMattys wrote:
It makes no sense to weight handicaps in TS terms. They vary too much in power and ingame effects, and the "average hc value" would always be unaccurate.
Average is not a synonym of fair.

Personally I'd love to match teams by TS, putting a max limit of +/- 5% ts in blackbox pairings, and I would eliminate handicaps at all.


I think most players would like that, but it's just not realistic to find a reasonable amount of matchups every 30mins in Black-Box when you have to not only match TS, but also TR (for avoiding HCs).


You don't calculate TR. You just make it so that TR is irrelevant and handicaps are not present at all, no matter the TRs involved.

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westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 16:07 Reply with quote Back to top
The "perfect" matchup in terms of TR/TS is not likely to exist in any given round so the best you can do is compromise by using a good-faith valuation of handicaps.

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Ash



Joined: Feb 03, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 16:08 Reply with quote Back to top
NONE!!! 0 TS.

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Ash
westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 16:10 Reply with quote Back to top
Ash wrote:
NONE!!! 0 TS.

Do you mean there should be no handicaps at all, or they should be used but valued at 0TS?

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 16:18 Reply with quote Back to top
westerner wrote:
The "perfect" matchup in terms of TR/TS is not likely to exist in any given round so the best you can do is compromise by using a good-faith valuation of handicaps.


re-read what I wrote.

Do NOT consider TR. Let the client NOT create handicaps no matter what the TR involved. Only use TS for the pairings.

This way you don't have to weight TRs

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Fama



Joined: Feb 09, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 16:29 Reply with quote Back to top
JanMattys wrote:

Do NOT consider TR. Let the client NOT create handicaps no matter what the TR involved. Only use TS for the pairings.

This way you don't have to weight TRs

That would bring problems with winnings since it depends on TR. But I guess the site code could be reworked to roll winnings serverside and ignore what the match report says.

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Eddy



Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 16:41 Reply with quote Back to top
Huh? You just need to turn off handicaps in the client. Winnings would still use TR and everything'd be as Jan said. I'm not saying it's good or bad, i'm saying it's possible.

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treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 17:11 Reply with quote Back to top
JanMattys wrote:
westerner wrote:
The "perfect" matchup in terms of TR/TS is not likely to exist in any given round so the best you can do is compromise by using a good-faith valuation of handicaps.


re-read what I wrote.

Do NOT consider TR. Let the client NOT create handicaps no matter what the TR involved. Only use TS for the pairings.

This way you don't have to weight TRs


Eddy wrote:
Huh? You just need to turn off handicaps in the client. Winnings would still use TR and everything'd be as Jan said. I'm not saying it's good or bad, i'm saying it's possible.


I see what Jan was aiming at, now (didn't get it right away) - didn't know this was so easy...

...I would favor that solution over random HCs as well Razz
Rijssiej



Joined: Jan 04, 2005
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 17:24 Reply with quote Back to top
westerner wrote:
BRIBE THE REF 2TS (almost useless, prevents IGMEOY on 1st foul only)


Bribe the ref is far more powerful than 2 TS. Being able to foul without risk till you get spotted once is a very usefull handi and more like 5TS.
westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 17:27 Reply with quote Back to top
I'm not terribly fond of handis but it is part of LRB4. One side effect of eliminating Virus would probably be more keeping of nigglers.

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Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 17:27 Reply with quote Back to top
Iron Man has been massively underrated.

It's one of the best handicaps out there and often the best you can get.
treborius



Joined: Apr 05, 2008
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 17:32 Reply with quote Back to top
westerner wrote:
I'm not terribly fond of handis but it is part of LRB4. One side effect of eliminating Virus would probably be more keeping of nigglers.


this is true - it's especially those teams with high TR, not so high TS, that give handicaps and have lots of nigglers, usually - Virus makes the coaches cut back on the roster and rebuild (part of) the team.
(That's good, I think Smile )
westerner



Joined: Jul 02, 2008
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 17:33 Reply with quote Back to top
Rijssiej wrote:
westerner wrote:
BRIBE THE REF 2TS (almost useless, prevents IGMEOY on 1st foul only)


Bribe the ref is far more powerful than 2 TS. Being able to foul without risk till you get spotted once is a very usefull handi and more like 5TS.

I'm confused about this one then. I initially thought it provided immunity from being sent off until the ref called a penalty (ie you failed IGMEOY), in which case it would indeed be quite powerful. But in my experience it seems like it only allows you to ignore the first IGMEOY roll only. 2nd and subsequent rolls have the usual chances of being sent off. Perhaps someone can confirm?

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Eddy



Joined: Aug 04, 2004
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 18:06 Reply with quote Back to top
It allows you to ignore the ref when he sends you off for the first time.

You foul a first time, the ref doesnt see you, you foul a second time, the ref spots you, but you don't have to argue the call and can stay on the field. You foul again after that and the ref spots you, you're sent off as normal.

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Robert R. Coveyou
Fallen00



Joined: Oct 16, 2008
Post   Posted: Dec 30, 2008 - 18:45 Reply with quote Back to top
Very unrealistic of you, Janmattys. Do you think everyone will have 5+ blackbox team? the current trend is one per coach. the scheduler would need 20 Coaches to schedule 2-4 matches.

I hope BigC is wiser than you Jan. It would be dreadful to see your system implemented
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