| Poll |
| Should this Night goblin team be added to the stunty league for more fun and mayhem! |
| Yes! |
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69% |
[ 76 ] |
| No... |
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16% |
[ 18 ] |
| I dont like stunty but i want to vote anyway! |
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14% |
[ 16 ] |
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| Total Votes : 110 |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Nov 27, 2003 - 14:26 |
 
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jazzer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 27, 2003 - 14:42 |
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i change everything and add more monkeys! |
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RIPNE1
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 01:17 |
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I'm a big fan of this list, and it seems the majority of people are too, what's the next step? |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 01:30 |
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It gives them too much over regular goblins without taking anything away, not to mention the fact that doom divers have nothing to do with night goblins. I'm not going to implement a list that is in effect just Goblins+. |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 01:58 |
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I disagree, having actually playtested the list at various TR against all the other stunty teams (except fairies)... I can honestly say the list seems quite balanced AND fun... I would have removed the netters before submitting it here, but the list got away from me and someone decided to post it as it was. Yes, the doom diver doesn't precicely fit the fluff, I admitted this when I proposed it no one reall seemed to mind much then. BUt let's assume we remove it too.
Now our comparrison sits at
NG
have 3 str 4 with a penalty roll, no hands AV7 and OFAB
2 B&C
and no access to a TTM game
vanilla gobs have
2 Str 5 with really stupid, regenerate and av9
free boot access to all the weapons
and a TTM option
If you playtest the roster I bit you'll find there are quite a number of draw backs. the biggest drawback is the instability, penalty rolls and OFAB and the fact that squigs are easy to injure... AV7. The TTM game they have is very limited and was added simply as a means to more mayhem. |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 03:06 |
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Except you seem to be leaving some things out.
| cataphract wrote: | | NG have 3 str 4 with a penalty roll, no hands AV7 and OFAB |
Not to mention extremely high mobility, frenzy, and RSC
| cataphract wrote: | | no access to a TTM game |
No access? They have two players with TTM and agility 3!
The netters also give them great reciever for a passing game, and the secret weapon players other than the fanatics only have a 1/6 chance of getting kicked out per drive.
So in short, you have goblins that trade 2 trolls for 3 much more mobile and deadly to stunty player squigs, 2 fanatics so you can still take out enemy big guys, 2 of the most accurate TTM players in the game, and recievers that catch the ball like elves.
What possible reasons would there be to take a normal goblin team over this one? |
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The Finishing Touch |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 11:22 |
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| Quote: |
No access? They have two players with TTM and agility 3!
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read my original post again
| Quote: |
Yes, the doom diver doesn't precicely fit the fluff, I admitted this when I proposed it no one reall seemed to mind much then. BUt let's assume we remove it too.
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that's what I'm saying, remove the netters and DD, you have squigs gobs and fanatics, very fluffy, vry night gobby, very fun to play! |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 12:33 |
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If you remove those you have almost the same list I posted, other than the fanatics switched for the squighoppers. 
The direction I am leaning in now is to go ahead and implement the version of the list I posted and see how well the team does. If they seem to need them, I'm not adverse to adding access to a couple of fanatics, or removing the squig hoppers if they don't play well. If I had time to go ahead and resize the icons I posted before I'd go ahead and get something going so we can see how they play. |
_________________
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The Finishing Touch |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 23:10 |
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| Mr-Klipp wrote: | If you remove those you have almost the same list I posted, other than the fanatics switched for the squighoppers.
The direction I am leaning in now is to go ahead and implement the version of the list I posted and see how well the team does. If they seem to need them, I'm not adverse to adding access to a couple of fanatics, or removing the squig hoppers if they don't play well. If I had time to go ahead and resize the icons I posted before I'd go ahead and get something going so we can see how they play. |
Not, to question the authority of the fumbbl admin... well yes... I guess I am questioning it... but that seems a little unfair... there have been a lot of people who have put work into making this list, testing it and (at least an attempt to) balancing it. Why would you make your list official when there is
a) proportianlly less support for it (yes votes at 69% vs 65%)
b) numerically less support (61 yes votes vs 17 yes votes)
why bother posting the poll if you were just going to impliment your roster? From the tone of what you said earlier It would seem you havn't playtested your roster
| Quote: | | The direction I am leaning in now is to go ahead and implement the version of the list I posted and see how well the team does |
well I have, granted they were 2 stand alone games against my brother but it's something. Against chaos flings and gobbo cheaters. Both games were huge victories to the goblins 4-0 against the cheaters and 3-0 against the flings. I played as the night gobbos in the cheaters game and my brother played them in the flings game.
| Quote: | | If you remove those you have almost the same list I posted, other than the fanatics switched for the squighoppers. |
It is the hoppers that break the team! IMHO the hoppers are way over powered. It's like having two str 4 elves on the pitch who can GFI 4 times! yes there are drawbacks but these are minor in comparison to their ball handling, passing and doddging stability. The fact is these guys pick up the ball on a 2+ dodge on a 2+ actually they do just about everything on a 2+. plus they are harder to knock down because they are strength 4. despite the fact they need to make 2 2+ rolls at the start of their turn they are still far more reliable than any other player in the stuntee league furthermore they can use re-rolls!.
AT least with the list proposed here you are forced to do your ball handling with the goblins! good ol mv 6 st 2 av7! even on a touchback you don't have the option to give the ball to a big guy none of them have hands!
I've played with both of the proposed rosters, I'll admit there might be a few problems that need ironing out in this one but from my experience the squig hopper list is broken to say the least plus it doesn't include fanatics. Like Forrest Gump would say Night goblins and fanatics are like peas and carrots. Actually I'm not sure he would say that but that's not the point.
My point is there has been a lot of work developing this roster and there was also a lot of work a few months ago to achieve a balanced squig. For you to jump into it less than a week ago and propose a completely different roster (and a margianally different squig), then, after it receives a lot less support and a lot less air time you decide to implpement it over the other one is terribly unfair. Granted it's your site, you're the admin and you can really do what you want. However the fact is there has been a lot of work on this list maybe it needs a bit more . Perhaps it isn't ready to be implemented yet, maybe it needs a bit more discussion, testing and alteration. But you can't (well actually you can but I'm using the imperative case to be argumentative)just go over the heads of a large part of the fumbbl community and implement a (seemingly) untested roster over one that
a)has been a long time in development
b)has more support from the fumbbl community
c)had more testing
d)doesn't have 2 stgr 4 Ag4 ball handling machines
e)Has fanatics!
Klipp you're a great bloke, I respect you a lot, you've done a magnificent amount of work for the blood bowl community and I thank you but if you are "to go ahead and implement the version of the list (you) posted". I, and at the very least, 60 other fumbblers will be mightily peeved. |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 23:17 |
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Remove the Squighoppers (I, for one, am not happy with their superb ball handling abilities. It's ridiculous...) and add the fanatics. You've had great public outcry regarding the lack of fanatics in a Night Goblin team... |
_________________
Founder of the Southern Wastes League
DonTwahn's Dungeon = Cheap Miniatures! Check it out... |
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alterationX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Nov 30, 2003 - 23:58 |
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yes, i have to say i like this list far better than the one klipp proposed. please sign our petition folks so that the evil dictator doesn't realise his dark schemes.
and squig hoppers with ag4 are just WRONG! |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 01, 2003 - 03:49 |
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Ok, let me go over this part again. The doom divers and netters are not going to happen, they make the team better than a standard goblin team and the objective of new rosters is variety, not improvement. The way this list was going, I was to the point of just saying forget the whole thing, I'm sick of seeing every new proposed stunty roster be more powerfull than the last.
To address a few of your points about the other list:
The squig on your list is simply too nasty. Once again, we see a case of building the player who has everything. Speed, strength, maneuverability, and superior killing power. Something that can get into any spot and block you twice with a +2 to your injury roll when you go down is simply too much. RSC or Frenzy had to go, and by removing frenzy you still have the option of taking it later on a double.
Replacing the squig hoppers with fanatics turns the team into a lawnmower, kill everyone on the first drive and score later. My objective in adding the hoppers was to give the team a different play style, because I really don't see the need to add yet another simple basher list, the objective is *diversity*. If the list does not offer a significantly different play experience, there is no reason to add it.
The ag4 and str4 on the squig hopper is countered by bonehead and OFAB. I suspect that those of you who insist that this is severly over the top have niether playtested this roster nor played a vampire team. In all the testing I have done, those two traits have taken away enough reliability to more than make up for the ag4, although if course if this proves not to be the case in actual play somehow, it takes 5 seconds to change the ag for that position to 3.
I'm simply nowhere near happy enough with this list to consider implementing it. My objective in offering a variant of the list was to kickstart things by taking some of the elements of the list and getting some active testing done so we could find out for sure what worked and what didn't in a live enviornment.
Since everyone is so against doing so, I won't waste my time with it. |
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Looking to get your minis painted? Look no further.
The Finishing Touch |
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cataphract
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 01, 2003 - 04:43 |
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| Quote: |
The squig on your list is simply too nasty. Once again, we see a case of building the player who has everything. Speed, strength, maneuverability, and superior killing power. Something that can get into any spot and block you twice with a +2 to your injury roll when you go down is simply too much. RSC or Frenzy had to go, and by removing frenzy you still have the option of taking it later on a double.
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It hardly has everything it has AV7, can't touch the ball a penalty roll and gets +3 to injury to your own players when it ofabs! perhaps if they were given big guy? so they have to bite when they ofab I think that was the original sentiment in the squigs post as well... also this roster only allows the squigs access to General skills. So they will rarely become blodgers whcih means they are easy for big guys to knock down hell even 3 stunties should be able to do it too! this coupled with the AV7 means theydon't stay on the pitch if your oponent is remotely inclined to removing them. |
_________________
"the eunuch should not take pride in its chastity" |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 01, 2003 - 04:48 |
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| cataphract wrote: |
It hardly has everything it has AV7 |
Not a big problem since few players will be able to catch it and knock it down.
| cataphract wrote: | | a penalty roll |
That you have only a 1/6 chance of failing.
| cataphract wrote: | | and gets +3 to injury to your own players when it ofabs! |
The OFAB rules state that this is an unmodified injury roll, so no +1 for stunty or +2 for RSF.
| cataphract wrote: | | hell even 3 stunties should be able to do it too! |
3 stunties are getting one dice on a squig, and most squigs are going to have block, the stunties won't. |
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Looking to get your minis painted? Look no further.
The Finishing Touch |
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Twahn
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 01, 2003 - 05:51 |
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| Mr-Klipp wrote: | | The squig on your list is simply too nasty. |
But hang on a sec... apart from them losing Frenzy and gaining Really Stupid/Bonehead and access to Agility Skills (probably about an equalish trade off), didn't you just give the Gobs 6 of them instead of 3? And half of them gained hands too, making them the ultimate ball handlers? Hardly making the team less powerful... 
You say that few stunties will be able to catch the Squig and he will most likely have Block making him hard to knock down.
Previously, catching him would not form a huge problem as he has no need to be away from the action (having no hands). Now watch those Stunties try to catch the Squighopper, who probably has Block AND Dodge and will be racing downfield with the ball in his very able hands! |
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