Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jan 07, 2009 - 02:50 |
 
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Technically, i find this goes against everything B is supposed to be.
But i can understand coaches not wanting to play yet again the same game. Like i sometimes wish i wouldn't have to play such or such of MY teams when i activated another one. I'm not even talking about some crazy match-ups. So i understand why Woodstock made this decision. It's not that big of a deal, after all, it's only one game, right?
The problem, as johan said, is that it's a can of worms. It will probably quikly become a big issue, even for admins, if everyone goes and asks to have a game unscheduled. It unbalances the supposedly "no dodging games" division, too.
To sum it up, my opinion is that a scheduled game should be played, no matter what. But enforcing the Blackbox rule doesn't me i wouldn't sympathize with coaches having to play the same game again and again. |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Jan 07, 2009 - 03:35 |
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| Eddy wrote: | | The problem, as johan said, is that it's a can of worms. It will probably quikly become a big issue, even for admins, if everyone goes and asks to have a game unscheduled. It unbalances the supposedly "no dodging games" division, too. |
I actually think this thread made the issue look a lot bigger then it was. I doubt a lot of people even knew about it (as it rarely happened), but now it is in the open and waiting for abuse.
And about dodging games, I had to unschedule teams atleast 50 times more for someone not showing up then this, so what is the biggest issue? |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 07, 2009 - 04:40 |
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@Woodstock/other admins - how frequent are games unscheduled because someone is not showing up?
I am not ... happy about any unscheduling happening. There's just too much abuse possible here. Get a matchup you don't like? Don't show up and have it unscheduled.
Seriously - only teams that are activated within the 5 minute time allowance before a round starts are considered at all. If you activate and then not turn up, I'd rule the game is started by admin, conceeded and forced through. That means - don't click activate if you don't really want to commit to the game you'll be assigned to within the next five minutes.
Yes, it'll hit the one or the other innocent that had a genuine emergency coming up. But if there's an emergency the last thing I'd care about are some strings of data leaving my "team". Just as I've conceeded games in ranked when it really became necessary to leave.
There should be NO dodging in this division whatsoever. It may be boring playing the same team/opponent several times, but I think that's more of an early stage/beta problem. The more teams there are active in the division the less likely. Or - you know - one of the two could just sit out one round if it's really an issue.
-Mnemon |
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Draxus
Joined: Nov 14, 2004
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Jan 07, 2009 - 04:45 |
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There needs to be a list of coaches who activate and then fail to show up to a match... if they repeat this then three strikes they are out! ( lose access to [B]) |
Last edited by Draxus on %b %07, %2009 - %09:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Jan 07, 2009 - 05:05 |
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| Quote: | | I'd rule the game is started by admin, conceeded and forced through. That means - don't click activate if you don't really want to commit to the game you'll be assigned to within the next five minutes. |
That sounds like an excellent rule to implement once the division comes out of testing although I certainly wouldnt be unhappy to see it sooner.
Obviously the concessions would only be forced if the coach goes to the admins so if there is a genuine emergency you can inform your opponent who then has the choice to either reschedule it or get the concession. Ruthless coaches will always take the concession but there are enough reasonable people around to warrant the choice in an emergency. The main thing is that in principle blackbox games shouldnt be called off for any reason. |
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westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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Jan 07, 2009 - 05:12 |
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That sounds like a good idea. |
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Espionage
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
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Jan 07, 2009 - 05:56 |
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any idea how long this testing phase will last? |
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Astarael
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
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Jan 07, 2009 - 06:46 |
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Your resident rules lawyer says: Rule does not exist, 404 error.
Until there's a definite rule it's for admins to rule as they see fit, therefor there is no right or wrong. Woodstock did fine. What I would recommend is an admin/security officer talking to Christer to get a definitive answer ASAP 
Note: Admin/security officer, we don't want 5,000 peons all pestering Christer.
Also, atm there's not heavy penalties for breaking the rules. However, once it is done testing, which could be a week or a year, the rules will be implemented fully. Also Christer has already said if he sees people abusing the system they'll be banned from [B] forever, so why risk it in the testing stages?
EDIT: My personal opinion as a rules lawyer is that as there's nothing against back to back games for [B] or in the site rules, yet it does state you play what you're given and cannot abandon games, that back to back games are currently acceptable in the [B] enviroment. |
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BiggieB
Joined: Feb 19, 2005
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Jan 07, 2009 - 07:38 |
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| Mnemon wrote: | @Woodstock/other admins - how frequent are games unscheduled because someone is not showing up?
I am not ... happy about any unscheduling happening. There's just too much abuse possible here. Get a matchup you don't like? Don't show up and have it unscheduled.
Seriously - only teams that are activated within the 5 minute time allowance before a round starts are considered at all. If you activate and then not turn up, I'd rule the game is started by admin, conceeded and forced through. That means - don't click activate if you don't really want to commit to the game you'll be assigned to within the next five minutes.
Yes, it'll hit the one or the other innocent that had a genuine emergency coming up. But if there's an emergency the last thing I'd care about are some strings of data leaving my "team". Just as I've conceeded games in ranked when it really became necessary to leave.
There should be NO dodging in this division whatsoever. It may be boring playing the same team/opponent several times, but I think that's more of an early stage/beta problem. The more teams there are active in the division the less likely. Or - you know - one of the two could just sit out one round if it's really an issue.
-Mnemon |
roughly once a day usually because someone activiated by misstakes.
Johan: Wed love guidlines but they are not really ironed out for the div yet. There will be guideluines and crystal clear rules. Right now the data is used for that purpose aswell as for making a sheduler as good as possible
/B |
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Emphasy
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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Jan 07, 2009 - 08:00 |
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Just beat the opponent into pieces so you are too far in tr/ts, problem solved. |
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Igvy
Joined: Apr 29, 2007
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Jan 07, 2009 - 08:41 |
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| Woodstock wrote: | | Same as back to back matches (but I think that problem is solved already). |
Well not unless it was fixed very recently.
But yea playing the same person back to back doesn't have the same feel. Just not as much fun. |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Jan 07, 2009 - 08:49 |
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Just to reiterate BiggieB's and woodstocks statements: As soon as the division moves from the testing stage it is currently in, to a permanent stage, guidelines will be formed just like all other divisions. As it is now, the games donesn't really "matter", they are just there to collect data.
Bear in mind that abusing flaws in the current scheduler and/or continuous gamedropping etc. will have consequences. There are just no division specific hardcoded guidelines.
M |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Jan 07, 2009 - 10:26 |
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@Mnemon: I agree, but I have nothing to follow. I disagree with a concession as punishment/reward tho.
@Espionage: Up to Christer
@Astarael: From the ranked rules which I was referring to:
| Code: | | The accepted benchmark for this division is 1 in 10 games played vs the same coach/team. Both teams need to have played a different team before playing again. |
@Mithrilpoint: Yup, that is it in a nutshell. |
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Skolopender
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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Jan 07, 2009 - 10:41 |
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| Mnemon wrote: | @Woodstock/other admins - how frequent are games unscheduled because someone is not showing up?
I am not ... happy about any unscheduling happening. There's just too much abuse possible here. Get a matchup you don't like? Don't show up and have it unscheduled.
Seriously - only teams that are activated within the 5 minute time allowance before a round starts are considered at all. If you activate and then not turn up, I'd rule the game is started by admin, conceeded and forced through. That means - don't click activate if you don't really want to commit to the game you'll be assigned to within the next five minutes.
Yes, it'll hit the one or the other innocent that had a genuine emergency coming up. But if there's an emergency the last thing I'd care about are some strings of data leaving my "team". Just as I've conceeded games in ranked when it really became necessary to leave.
There should be NO dodging in this division whatsoever. It may be boring playing the same team/opponent several times, but I think that's more of an early stage/beta problem. The more teams there are active in the division the less likely. Or - you know - one of the two could just sit out one round if it's really an issue.
-Mnemon |
What he said! And back to back games with same teams(not coaches) should be ruled out after Alpha. Maybe like a 1 in 10 with the same teams. Similar to ranked.
Coach vs. coach back to back isn't a problem IMO. Might even lead to some good grudges  |
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Emphasy
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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Jan 07, 2009 - 10:48 |
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I just played f0rd back 2 back with the same 2 teams in B, so i guess it doesnt rule that out automatic:) |
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