westerner
Joined: Jul 02, 2008
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Feb 04, 2009 - 15:52 |
 
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I think it's high time [B] got some long term competitive goals to maintain interest beyond the single competitive match (which it does very well IMO).
I understand the importance of "test" and all, but the danger in letting it go too long is people will think of the test as the real thing. |
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clarkin
Joined: Oct 15, 2007
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Feb 04, 2009 - 16:40 |
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I absolutely love blackbox. The recent scheduler change has made it even better. Like with most things, the dissatisfied few cry louder than anyone else- for example the killer teams 'problem' is grossly overstated on threads.
If you are unsure, give it a try. Couldn't really get much easier than that. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 16:53 |
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| clarkin wrote: | I absolutely love blackbox. The recent scheduler change has made it even better. Like with most things, the dissatisfied few cry louder than anyone else- for example the killer teams 'problem' is grossly overstated on threads.
If you are unsure, give it a try. Couldn't really get much easier than that. |
I have played 148 games in Blackbox, 50 with my MIB Rat team, but the fact remains that the games played in the division have been dropping.
In any division there will always be some who 'cry louder' than others, but the numbers suggest that part of the recipe is missing.
I think one ingredient could be showing Rankings, but just trying to ignore the situation does not sound like a wise option to me. |
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pac
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
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Feb 04, 2009 - 16:56 |
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| westerner wrote: | | I think it's high time [B] got some long term competitive goals to maintain interest beyond the single competitive match (which it does very well IMO). |
Regular readers will already be aware that I quite agree with westerner's argument here.  |
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Chainsaw
Joined: Aug 31, 2005
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Feb 04, 2009 - 17:08 |
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Too many division types. Between ranked (which has all the meaningful competitions) and leagues, faction and blackbox, is it surprising that the one with no long term purpose to team building beyond record building is the one that suffers? |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 17:22 |
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| Chainsaw wrote: | | Too many division types. Between ranked (which has all the meaningful competitions) and leagues, faction and blackbox, is it surprising that the one with no long term purpose to team building beyond record building is the one that suffers? |
that's a bit exagerated as it is second in Games played. It lost his first place over time  |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 17:23 |
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I expected the divisions to settle down after Christer's adjustments to be;
[R] Open play division, admin run majors and minors
[L] Player run (LRB 4.0) leagues and non-competitive games
[B] Competitive games with the only recognisable Ranking
[S] Stunty division with play run leagues (which should grow again after the [L] to [S] move)
[A] For new joiners and beginners.
Both the [B] ranking and [L] to [S] moves have not happened though, which is a shame.
Once the adjustments takes place [U] will be gone and I think [F] might as well become part of [L] |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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Feb 04, 2009 - 17:54 |
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That isn't going to happen, as the Fumbbl tastemakers have decreed that Blackbox sucks. |
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Unstoffe
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 18:04 |
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I wouldn't mind seeing BR, but really I'd just like to see tournaments of some kind. Pretty much for selfish reasons to be honest, though I do think they'd be good for the division too 
The fact is now I have [B] and can be sure of a fun, fair game with no waiting, I can't see me bothering to play my [R] teams at all except for in scheduled smacks, the tour and so on. Given my teams will enter those 10-20TR down on the opposition due to not playing any preparation games, they're unlikely to do too well... and as for building a competitive team for a major this way, there's no chance.
And while the site is about far more than tournaments it would be nice to have some hope at least of winning one (outside [L] that is - just need my luck to hold for 8 more games there ) |
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TheCetusProject
Joined: May 25, 2004
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Feb 04, 2009 - 19:40 |
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Having improved matters immensely by removing the dreaded BR from matchmaking, it would be shame to poison the division with villainy such as visible BR and accursed tournaments and whatever other things people can come up with to make the game Work instead of Fun. |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Feb 04, 2009 - 19:43 |
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| Quote: | I expected the divisions to settle down after Christer's adjustments to be;
[R] Open play division, admin run majors and minors
[L] Player run (LRB 4.0) leagues and non-competitive games
[B] Competitive games with the only recognisable Ranking
[S] Stunty division with play run leagues (which should grow again after the [L] to [S] move)
[A] For new joiners and beginners.
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I agree with DukeTyrion that the [B] division should become the only true ranked division, as [R] allows too much cherry-picking for a true player ranking...I should know. I had a crappy ranking until I started selecting my opponents and now I'm a much better coach! .
I also think it should become the primary division for the major tournaments. Tourneys would be a lot fairer if the teams that entered them hadn't had the option to pick their opponents in the lead-up and were forced to develop in the Box. |
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Sigmar1
Joined: Aug 13, 2008
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Feb 04, 2009 - 19:51 |
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As for the complaints of Box play (killer teams/ dps/ etc.), that hasn't been my experience. If it weren't for my desire to foray into the tournment scene I probably wouldn't play [R] at all anymore. Just too damn convienient to get a game with no waiting and I love the idea of playing a totally unknown opponent.
As for variety of opponents, maybe I've been lucky but I've had an excellent mix of opponent teams and haven't noticed an excessive number of matches vs. Orcs/Dwarfs/Khemri/Ogres.
Edit: As a matter of fact, in my 49 Box games I've played:
Lizards and Chaos: 7 games each
Khemri and Rotters: 5 games each
Orcs: 4 games
Everyone else: 3 games or less, (Only ONE Dwarf match!) |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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Feb 04, 2009 - 20:19 |
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My experiences have been similar Sigmar1, until recently. But I chalk that up to the vagueries of [B]. |
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<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited
"I hear that shadow is a douchebag"
-Mr Foulscumm |
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PainState
Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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Feb 04, 2009 - 20:22 |
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wow Sigmar1 you hit all my hot buttons on those posts!
1)I cant stand how people say how fast and convienant Black box is to find games. Well if you join the box 5 minutes before draw and not 28 minutes until draw because you just missed it. I can find games IF there are people on the gamfinder of course in under 3 minutes on a regular basis. Now granted I play allmost who ever Iam matched up against and my Buccaneers have suffered horendous CAS in some games and I have to rebuild 8 times now. SO maybe I should take a little better care with them when it comes to playing with them. But if you are just playing for the sake of Fun this argument goes right out the window. You can find games very fast if you do not worry about the match up.
2)Ranked majors are not fair because you can "pick" your prep games. Well that is true that you can "pick" but my experience of getting into majors once your team hits around TR240+ It becomes allmost impossible to "pick" at that level. Sure you could only play "Elves" and such but the coaches at that level are not in experienced and to my dismay elves at that level have this very nasty habit of KILLING my players, not good for prep. If you can even find them on the gamefinder which I cannot on a regular basis. Plus once the tourney starts and you get past the first two rounds, if you "picked" properly according to your main point, you run across a team that only plays in Majors and never picks, because of that nasty habit of elves killing you in prep matches. Then what is it? are they just lucky to have a team that does not need to prep for majors or pick? Majors and Minors reflect reality really well in this one area, it all comes down to the Draw! a lot of teams make it through the qualifiers because the bracket set up perfectly for them. That is not the coaches fault, instead I would say that is good coaching. He capitalized on his good fortune and did not blow it.
3)IMO if the Box gets some form of tournaments it will not increase participation that much because the Box right now is pigeoned holed as the DIV for all the bashers, DP's and CL/RSC guys because they cant be avoided. In the end IMO thats why a lot of coaches are staying away. Now this might just be perception and not reality but the perception of the DIV is the reality to the vast majority of coaches who do not read the Threads and are not engaged in Fumbbl community, they just appear every so often play a game or two and are gone for a few days, those coaches make up the majority of the Fumbbl community. |
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Snappy_Dresser
Joined: Feb 11, 2005
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Feb 04, 2009 - 20:39 |
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Thought the better of my rant.
I'll leave it at Blackbox needs 2 things:
1) A series of majors where participation is predicated on the coaches achieving a certain skill level (could be BR, could be something else). Then regular games will matter, there will be something you're playing for, and Ranked will stop acting like we're going to steal their majors the second they turn their backs.
2) Some kind of forced diversity. Personnaly, I'm in favour of something like:
Group A: Ogres, Khemri, Dwarfs, Orcs, Norse, CDs
Group B: All the Elves, Humans, Amazons, Maybe Lizards
Group C: Everybody else
To play a team from Group A you must have at least 1 from Group B or 2 from Group C. You never have to select them as prefered, but you do have to play if selected. The makeup of the groups can be hashed out later (if something isn't working, it can be changed).
Black Box is not an open league, and as such, it needs some modicum of rules.
Everything else (TS tweaks, etc) is gravy. |
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<PurpleChest> the way it splooshed got me so excited
"I hear that shadow is a douchebag"
-Mr Foulscumm
Last edited by Snappy_Dresser on %b %04, %2009 - %20:%Feb; edited 2 times in total |
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