Chrispy
Joined: May 13, 2009
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 Posted:
May 15, 2009 - 02:40 |
 
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I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, but I wanted to know if anyone could look at my last game and offer me suggestions. This is only my third game of BBowl ever, but I managed to score once and tie up the game. My Orcs were down a man from a CAS the last game, but someone offered to play with their 10 man game so that we'd be even. Please let me know what you think, and how I can improve my play! |
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Kryten
Joined: Sep 02, 2003
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Cavetroll
Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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May 15, 2009 - 04:09 |
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Hi Chrispy, welcome to FUMBBL. I did review your roster and your game that Kryten posted. Now I'm no expert, as my CR and winning percentage will attest to, but I think I have a solid understanding of the basics so here goes 
I don't think you made any major mistakes and played a very solid game against Dörfchen Blights. 3 things that stood out to me that are easy to fix:
1) Don't follow up blocks if it puts you at a disadvantage on your opponents turn. I noticed you did this a few times with your Black Orc Blockers. Now you might have wanted to man-mark which is understandeable. But there was at least 1 time that I thought man-marking was a bad idea (you were surrounded by at least 3 of his players and he could get a 2-die block back at you).
2) Don't put more than 3 players on the LOS when you are on defense. This one took me a LONG time to learn the hard way. The coach on offense nearly always has the advantage (unless he is down by more than 2 players) and will just knock your guys down on his first turn. I've found it's better to put the minimum 3 on the LOS and have everyone else a few squares back.
3) Regarding your opponent's TD: you probably should have blocked with the 1 Blitzer (Grog) to free the other one (Mog) up instead of dodging away. I saw you wisely saved a reroll for the dodge, but the odds were better that Grog would have gotten a Skull/Pow or a Pushback on the human lineman Griswold than they were that Mog would have successfully made his dodge check. Because Grog had the Block skill and Griswold didn't, you had a 5-in-6 chance of getting a result that would have neutralized Griswold's tackle zone on Mog. The chance for Mog to successfully dodge away are 4-in-6. You could have used the re-roll on either attempt, or saved it for the blitz Mog was making on catcher Dagonet. This might have prevented the TD but I won't be that bold. A lot of other things would have had to happen that are too hard to predict even with the benefit of hindsight. It would have delayed it for at least a turn assuming you didn't roll double-skulls on your blitz
There are some really good guides in the forums for blocking, playing certain races, dodging vs. blocking, and setting up defenses to play against strong teams, agility teams, fast teams and slow teams.
Check out these links if you haven't already:
http://fumbbl.com/help:Strategy
http://fumbbl.com/help:GeneralStrategy
http://fumbbl.com/help:RaceStrategy
and my personal favorite (read this one often, at least once a month to refresh yourself until you are doing it consistently)
The Art of Blocking (it's a .pdf file on the General Strategy page under the section 'Strategy Guides and Links').
I didn't watch your first two games, as you didn't request instruction on those but I'd say your third game demonstrated an understanding of the basic principles (like Caging) and you did tie. A lot of good coaches around here are forced to accept ties when playing opponents of similar talent level. And sometimes luck just isn't with you (or isn't against your opponent). I'd say you have a solid foundation to build on. Keep reading and keep playing games and you will improve.
Good luck and may Nuffle's attention not fall on you too often. |
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nerf indigo 2016 |
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Chrispy
Joined: May 13, 2009
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May 15, 2009 - 05:19 |
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Thank you for the kind welcome, and taking the time to review my game. I asked on this one because I feel like I've actually grasped some of the concepts, but I'd like to know where I could do better.
I'm still trying to figure out when following up on blocks are best. Up til now, I've been pushing the offensive to keep my opponent in my TZs, but I'll think harder and plan ahead.
I'm never sure where to place things before the kickoff when I'm on the defense OR offense. I read about the cage strategy today and thought to try it out, which worked wonderfully in my first half. I'll remember what you said about keeping only 3 Orcs on the LOS. I tried to fill it up so that I couldn't get knocked around, but with Black Orcs, I guess I shouldn't worry about that too much.
Thanks for analyzing that last half for me. I have a hard time seeing exactly when things started going south, but it was probably around the time he knocked out three of my men. I'll continue replaying my game to see exactly what you mean when you say I have a better chance blocking. My thought was to first get my hands on that ball, but I can see how I may have fared better if I blocked like you said.
I've been reading the guides in my spare time, which has helped immediately, it seems. Thanks for looking at my latest game. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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May 15, 2009 - 05:28 |
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Welcome to Fumbbl...
You in the first half you could have moved the ball at least 4 squares in Turn 2.
Your opponent was relatively lucky to Dodge away and cut of that sideline.
He overcommits and you didn't make him pay for that mistake.
You could have then moved your Center to screen him onto that side and then move in behind him.
Though the marking of his downed Ogre was a good idea you tied up 2 of your players to his 1.
When his Ogre did no stand up the next turn you should have moved your BOB's downfield leaving his Ogre out of the play for at least 2 turns and regaining your BOB's.
You also could have moved another 2 squares on turn 4.
You should not have scored until your turn 8. You were dominating the Pitch.
You should have stalled on the Goaline towards one corner using the Sideline and Endline to protect you from 2 sides and your other players only need to defend the other 2 sides.
He had little chance of injurying your players or stopping the Touchdown.
By scoring you took away your chance to bash his helpless team and earn CAS that wouls gain spps and help secure your win.
You also gave him a chance to score an equalizer TD to end the half.
Most good coaches know how to effectively score in 2 turns.
A good coach would then recieve to start the 2nd Half and score another TD.
A very good coach would take 4 or more turns to score the 2nd TD leaving you with 5 or fewer turns to TIE and little chance for the WIN.
The stall would have helped to ensure you would likely get nothing less than a tie reult.
Your opponent would then be forced to 2 turn you in the 2nd Half.
If successful he would then try to get the ball away from you to score the winning TD.
You would have 7 turns to score the winning TD the same way you scored the first again stalling until the Final turn.
You played pretty good overall. |
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ryanfitz
Joined: Mar 24, 2009
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May 15, 2009 - 06:00 |
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~BOBs 4ST is nice but til they have block, they can be a turnover/reroll-eating machines.
~End of the 1st half, you blitzed his catcher and claimed the ball then ran back with your last active blitzer Brob (didnt really provide any extra protection.) Better play would have been to get him into scoring range possibly for T8 (not high % but never hurts to give yourself an outside chance.) Move him into scoring range so if miracle of miracle happens you can get of a pass to him and run it in for a lucky 2nd td of the 1st half.
~2nd half kickoff - he scored because you didn't leave anyone deep to defend against his deep threats. Putting your linemen on the line or BOBs with guard/block and then using a staggered and/or deeper defense with at least one Strong Safety/Sweeper (Blitzer is best here for orcs, your best speed and power(get tackle)) to clean up any of those nasty fast catchers and gutterrunners that try to sneak through.
~T3 2nd half You pinned your cage against the sideline you could have taken your cage and brought it over the top blitzing his catcher and leaving the 'backside' more exposed, since none of his guys could have gotten there. he would have had to take guys away from the LOS maybe failed dodge to a turnover, or at least causing him to panic some. This is also the turn you put a BOB in danger (he got KOd) by following up a block that didnt really need to be followed up.
~T4 2nd half you followed up T3 by running your cage right into his defense allowing him to pin your cage the next turn and you tried to dodge a BOB (not usually a good idea, sometimes a must but better to let his ogre 2db your BOB in this case)
~T5-who were you passing to? your BOB woulda required a 7 to catch it, more likely his Catcher would have gotten it. I would rather see you try to blitz his catcher with your thrower with the ball to push the catcher into your lineman. If you didn't get the pow you coulda then assisted and gotten your lineman away from the ogre, so he has to blitz if he wants to use that ST5 then maybe take your chances with your blitzers if you still have the opportunity to prevent the surf. (Turns out the ogre went bonehead too.)
~T6 you mighta been happier not putting your ballcarrier out in the open leaving him behind the BOB and lineman with maybe a catcher to blitz you isnt a bad option.
~T7 leave your BOB after hittin his catcher, an extra TZ on the ball gives him less chance to make a miracle T16 play. Nice pickup but you have noone in scoring range and your thrower that went down trying to blitz lost his assist and tackle zones. He has 3 chances to beat on your guy that just picked up the ball.
~gratz on the +FF
~Mind you everything that has just been said is from a guy that struggles to maintain a 140 CR, so obviously take what looks good and keep it and take what looks like bogus and chuck it out the door like the bogus it is. |
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RandomPassersby
Joined: May 02, 2009
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May 15, 2009 - 06:24 |
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Heh, getting a game you played mere hours ago analyzed sure is interesting. Seeing how I'm pretty much still learning the ropes myself, the comments posted so far have been quite insightful even for me and made me realize a few spots where I could have done better myself as well.
If it's not asking for too much, I'd like to chime in and ask for some opinions on my part of the play. Did I make some especially glaring mistakes? Or relied a bit too much on lucky dodge rolls? Should I have played differently with regard to a certain aspect of the game? I'd be most thankful for any helpful advice from more experienced coaches. |
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ryanfitz
Joined: Mar 24, 2009
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| Posted:
May 15, 2009 - 08:03 |
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~Follow up only when it helps you just like with the BOBs, ST5 ogre is still vulnerable if you walk him into the middle of a group of guys. A bit overcommitted to the LOS to start, you woulda had those to linemen KO'd either way. Orcs being a slower team your 'flat' defense isn't as much an issue as he doesn't have a really 'fast' guy to breakthrough. Your humies dont go toe to toe as well as orcs. no reason to put your guys marked-up next to his on the newly formed LOS. Without guard a separated defense that is one square away from his cage/LOS will do plenty to slow his advance down, having all your guys side by side just means he can tie up more of your guys with less of his.
~Tough defending when hes formed his cage and youve lose 3 guys in the first couple turns. Aim to slow him down and hope he makes a mistake or gets impatient and leaves you an opening.
~To end the 1st half hes given you 3 turns and you've gotten a great opening throug some good dice and being opportunistic. Leave your ogre to tie up his 3 BOBs if your lucky they dont do anything other than take the 3 of them to beat him up or even cause a turnover, use that lineman to form yourself a cage if you must get the ball to your catcher right now. You could also hang back with your thrower 'think scramble' and try to free your catchers downfield without the ball. Sending your catcher alone downfield is asking for him to get blindsided. You still have T7 and T8 to possibly get the ball to them as they are far faster than his orcs and score your TD once you have the ball and still have movement or cage them up proper.and try to get that cage within their scoring distance in the next couple turns. Why not stand up your catcher and blitzing with the assist with your blitzer or blitzing 1d with your blitzer and hope to recover with your Catcher for the score, didn't really understand bringing your blitzer in just to be there with no guard to help out.
~T8 odds are against you gettin that ball back and scoring this turn, aim to put one of his guys on the bench stand up Galahad your catcher, move your thrower rolf to prevent his lineman from giving assist, and block his thrower wag, you'll either get a hit or a push with 2d and Arnuff can throw a 2db to surf or block him down to injur him leaving you with a final 2db blitz. so 3 more chances to keep an orc off the pitch for the next drive or the match.
~2nd half drive great job taking advantage of the opportunity, you marked up all his guys, just to try to hit your catcher hes got to make an iffy dodge, but he does have a reroll being the beginning of the new half so even his lineorcs and blitzer will make their dodges more often than not with a reroll available. thats a 2db on your st2 catcher, plus now your gonna have to score quickly giving him almost a full half to go for the 2-1 win.
~He's failed his dodge! now's the time to see if you can work out some stalling. If your Catcher goes and sits on the goalline, only his blitzer with both of his GFI will be able to touch you. Take Dagonet to the goaline and run down to behind what looks like his strongside. so use your 2 man linemen that have a blitzer Grog to push Grog twords the sideline and take Ardrai and put him one square away from Brob his only blitzer that can reach your catcher on the goalline, you now have a guy that makes him either blitz him or try 3 very unlikely dodges for an orc blitzer. bust your other catcher around the backside and youve got him tied up for at least another turn, maybe more if anything goes wrong for him. Don't block with your Ogre in this situation, hes soaking up 3 guys, hes not boneheaded so hes doing a great job!
~OK you scored, nice, the games tied, but hes got the ball and some turns to do some work. separate out your guys so he cant easily tie up two with one. your mobility is key against orcs. 5 guys on the LOS = 5 guys he's gonna do his best to beat on, he is an orc after all.
~Ogres are powerful, but they cant use your team RRs, they will roll double both downs or worse 1/9 times on 2dbs, try to save their blocks til it makes the most sense (sometimes you need that 1st block to be ogre, but there are some big risks) He has everyone not in the cage tied up on the LOS, you have 4 guys free, i would like to see you maybe try to beat on that back left lineman thats not quite in his cage formation properly after moving your T & C closer from the other side (no need for contact one square away would be great) You knocked out a BOB (truely very nice) but now you've got a guy down and hes got 2 2db blocks and his blitz, at least they are BOBs without block so you have some chance of a turnover.
Very vulnerable after he smacked down your thrower Detlef he could come aroudn with a blitz and pop your catcher and reform his cage, he wouldn't even need to make a perfect cage as you'd have no way of getting around this next turn.
~T4 no reason to put your thrower on his BOB, he's slow and is currently unable to hit anyone, without using up their blitz. Your wall prevents him from going any further than that, but hes got plenty of time he should blitz your blitzer Arnulf and either assist against your ogre and have a slightly offset cage which wouldnt matter as you cant get in behind or just leave the ogre and bob dukin it out, tying up your ST5 guy til the end. he nicely comes right into your def wall.
~T5 great job crushing in the corner of his cage and pinning 4/5 of the cage allowing him 1dbs at best. you've left yourself with a great defensive position and your catcher that should be blitzed still prevents him easy dodges and makes him use his blitz the way you want.
~T6 Ogres will bonehead, they just do. i mighta thought about bringing my catcher thats next to the ball down closer to the endzone, bring your closer lineman down under his thrower and 2gfi blitzing his thrower next to the ball. if your gfis fail you have a catcher down by the goal that he's gonna want to mark a tz on the ball and a tz on the guy that hes most likely going to want to pick up the ball with. I prolly would have brought your thrower over in to cover the tz's lost by your boneheaded ogre. if all went well the ball is free of all tz and you can hope your other catcher can skip away from his BOB to pick it up and pass it down to your guy near the goalline who will be relatively unthreatenable. anything you can fail here still leaves him with dice rolls before he can even get to the ball. so you've left yourself in the best possible position. I do like surfing Brob.
~T7 its just gonna happen that 2dbs don't go right, you've left yourself with a pretty good position of what you had.
~T8(16)Detlef your thrower had a 2db on the ballcarrier and would push him into your guys even if he just gets a push allowing you 2 more chances at 2dbs on the ballcarrier. And youve got a good chance of knockin it free not next to one of his guys. good pickup and pass, cant make a catcher catch.
same as before, so take what looks right and try it out, take what looks like hooey to you and pitch it. |
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spelledaren
Joined: Mar 06, 2004
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| Posted:
May 15, 2009 - 08:04 |
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Some extra kudos to the people who have answered in this thread. This is the kind of thing that makes the community great. |
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FUMBBL! |
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Chrispy
Joined: May 13, 2009
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| Posted:
May 16, 2009 - 00:31 |
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This is fantastic. I wanted to thank everyone who took time to even post in this thread. I can't believe how awesome this community is. Thanks for all the suggestions and tips. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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| Posted:
May 16, 2009 - 00:59 |
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RandomPassersby... I can't help you as much as I am still pretty green with Humans myself.
I can only suggest you learn to 2 turn TD better than you currently do.
You were relying almost entirely on luck to get both your TD's.
Check the tactics threads for more info... you want to send your players into his half of the pitch with protection.
The Dodges were just a little lucky... but it was foolish to be in the position to need to make them. Humans can't stand toe to toe with Orcs. They need to make more tactical strikes.
Your Defensive style at this point would be better with High Elves or Dark Elves.
You did good to stop his Cage in the 2nd Half... lean more towards this approach than your 1st half attempt. You were able to pop the ball loose to give yourself a chance.
The biggest mistake you make was placing your Catcher so close to the EndZone.
He has MA8 you could have placed him exactly 8 squares away from a TD.
Then the Throw or potential Handoff to him is more easily attainable.
Also he would have been close enough to the play to have provided an assist or picked up the ball or anything else useful. |
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Gnomes are trash
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