Ullakkomorko
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
|
 Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 10:56 |
 
|
The "bashing and fouling" feels pretty much gone now. For example, right now there are the following B games going on:
Skaven-Chaos
Ogre-Chaos Dwarf
Necromantic-Dwarf
Vampire-Necromantic
Elf-Vampire
This doesn't prove anything of course, but it's still a pretty good spread (and no Khemri or Orcs). No, wait, there's too many Necromantic teams in the box! |
|
|
sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 11:11 |
|
| Ehlers wrote: | Well if thats so, then why do people keep saying that people in R pick?
And no picking and choosing is not that same, well atleast not for me.
Pick:
Is where you pick a weak oppounent and only take those games you will win
Choose:
Is more loose then picking. You can say that you can choose to take only easy matches. But I would say that when you choose, it is wheather or not you think the game is fair. |
I take your pick for cherrypick and pick=choose.
| Quote: | | I am just tirred of the attitude of people who says that people in R only pick. |
Well those comments were always existing in the forums. Either you had 170 CR and thus was a big cherrypicker (what else?) now it's a [You play R you cherrypick] kind of verbal aggression. The truth is: who cares? You love R and I'm fine with it.I love B and I'm fine with it. I would just like to have a little more guys into the blackbox. I don't think that anything positive for [B] can pop up from beeing disrescpectfull to R coaches.
I always disliked coaches (exemple:Darkwolf) who were for deleting divisions like Stunty or Ladder or whatever. If they don't play in it, then it's none of their business.
| Quote: | The reason I think why lots of people dont play in the Box is because of the current system it works under.
A few reason why I dont play in the box.
1: Cant play with the team I want to play with if I have more then 1 team.
2: multiplied same race games. (I got tired of getting only orcs in a few games)
3. How teams are matched. They are not always fair, which something you actually can archieve in R
4. If I need a recovery match for my team. I could end up playing against someone who just want to kill teams (I am not a pixel hugger. But not having the chance of getting a fair amount of recovery games (if needed) seems to me just not right) |
Yes it's right. Point 1 can't be solved without decreasing the games quality.
Point 2 is a matter of randomness. I find it ok atm as variety got better, but well it's a matter of opinions. Point 3 is true also, but it's very ok and everyone is on equal grounds, something I am very fond off. It doesn't matter if sometimes I play at -15TS. I know my opponent can and will sometimes too. Point 4 shouldn't be solved.
Your reasons are valid. I would never say that [B] should suit to everyone. It suits me, and probably will for a few coaches more if they'd try it. |
_________________
Join NL Raises from the Ashes |
|
sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 11:24 |
|
| shadow46x2 wrote: | [i]blah blah and[i]
if all of you B coaches are so high and mighty, then why not prove that you're such a hardcore coach, and play an open schedule in ranked?...it's actually quite easy to avoid the few coaches who look for unfair matches.... |
You're not a lot smarter than those you actually try to prove wrong. So what? You think it's stupid to:
-Say every high CR coaches are cherrypickers.
-R are full of wussies (I have no clue what's the meaning of wussie but I see the context)
-elf coaches are elfbowlers
But you tell that, wow:
-Every B coach thinks so much of hisself and looks down to R coaches.
| Quote: | | and if B is so "picker" free....then why did most of the original B coaches(myself included) quit playing in B when the 0RR+Leader exploit was running rampant?.... |
This part failed to prove your point. So you just pointed out that there was a cherrypicking exploit that was issued and then you point out a cherrypicker that left because he couldn't cherrypick anymore. Ok so that's supposed to prove that there IS (and not WAS) some cherrypicking mentality in the box? |
_________________
Join NL Raises from the Ashes |
|
Ullakkomorko
Joined: Aug 10, 2008
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 11:30 |
|
I like the Box because when I put my teams on Gamefinder, I can't avoid the instinct to be picky in some way. Plus, I've realised that some of my teams (my pro elves who all took dodge) were built for being picky (I doubt I'd ever play against Dwarves with my pro elves).
I'd probably be glad if someone offered me a match I was hoping to get to play anyway, like with an inferior team. That way I could even get around the guilt by pretending that it's ok as the other coach suggested it.
Blackbox helps me be a better person. Honestly. |
|
|
odi
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 11:44 |
|
| paulhicks wrote: |
yep... i'd say the "lets cram it full of bashing and fouling" was more of a forseeable and inevitable consequence rather than a deliberate intention. |
Ofcourse in the beginning everyone who was just out to bash, hopped in, but it really isnt like that anymore. I guess those people realized that they would be playing the same kinda coaches all too often and left.
| DukeTyrion wrote: |
My teams seem to do okay, and they are all AV7  |
Same here, I've had 2 norse teams in B, but I even got tired bashing with those. So now days it's only skaven and gobbos (well, gobbos are evil). Only 2 more games with the rats and they'll hit the 100 games mark  |
|
|
Mastergabber
Joined: Oct 17, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 12:17 |
|
While I'm not a [B]lackbox player yet, I should vote for Blacklisting. But only if there must be given a good reason for blacklisting someone. For example, I have blacklisted one in [R]anked because he doesn't say something in chat at all. Then I don't want to be scheduled to him.
Other important reason, once I avoided a proposal because I only can play on a proxy (firewall) and opponent only could play with direct contact (otherwise often suffers disconnections.) Now I know better (later a game with direct contact worked fine) but a reason like this must be a good reason to not be scheduled against each other. |
|
|
JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 12:21 |
|
| shadow46x2 wrote: | | Were_M_Eye wrote: | | If some one fouls and bash alot, well that is the point with the box. |
um..no...
the "point" of the box was to create a competitive environment free of some of the flaws that ranked has...
of course hindsight being 20/20, with some of the attitudes and intentions of some coaches on fumbbl, it's impossible to create that environment...
| Ehlers wrote: | | But I would like to see a B coach play in R with his elves that would keep on playing claw&razor&tackle teams all the time. |
true story...
if all of you B coaches are so high and mighty, then why not prove that you're such a hardcore coach, and play an open schedule in ranked?...it's actually quite easy to avoid the few coaches who look for unfair matches....
and if B is so "picker" free....then why did most of the original B coaches(myself included) quit playing in B when the 0RR+Leader exploit was running rampant?....
if i may present one example....oh, and the coaches words regarding said team is fairly accurate to the mentality of such coaches...
<lawman> the TS formuala got changed, so I don't play the norse there anymore as it has no personality, no fun for me
if i may present a translation to the comment -> "i couldn't exploit the system anymore, and i couldn't get anymore unfair matches, so i quit playing the team"....
but that translation is just speculation...
long story short...
the same out of "picking" goes on in B...it has just evolved into a system that is effective within the blackbox....so get off your high horses, people
| SillySod wrote: | | Being able to blacklist 1-3 coaches wouldnt be a bad thing. If you think you're going to be able to dodge all the fouling metagamers in the box by blacklisting three coaches... well.... |
well seeing as how there's only 4 or 5 blackbox coaches that play....
--j |
Sometimes Shadow just posts something that makes me remember why I love him so much despite his grumpty attitude.
/me hugs Shadow. |
_________________
 |
|
Ehlers
Joined: Jun 26, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 13:03 |
|
| sk8bcn wrote: | Well those comments were always existing in the forums. Either you had 170 CR and thus was a big cherrypicker (what else?) now it's a [You play R you cherrypick] kind of verbal aggression. The truth is: who cares? You love R and I'm fine with it.I love B and I'm fine with it. I would just like to have a little more guys into the blackbox. I don't think that anything positive for [B] can pop up from beeing disrescpectfull to R coaches.
| Quote: | The reason I think why lots of people dont play in the Box is because of the current system it works under.
A few reason why I dont play in the box.
1: Cant play with the team I want to play with if I have more then 1 team.
2: multiplied same race games. (I got tired of getting only orcs in a few games)
3. How teams are matched. They are not always fair, which something you actually can archieve in R
4. If I need a recovery match for my team. I could end up playing against someone who just want to kill teams (I am not a pixel hugger. But not having the chance of getting a fair amount of recovery games (if needed) seems to me just not right) |
Yes it's right. Point 1 can't be solved without decreasing the games quality.
Point 2 is a matter of randomness. I find it ok atm as variety got better, but well it's a matter of opinions. Point 3 is true also, but it's very ok and everyone is on equal grounds, something I am very fond off. It doesn't matter if sometimes I play at -15TS. I know my opponent can and will sometimes too. Point 4 shouldn't be solved.
Your reasons are valid. I would never say that [B] should suit to everyone. It suits me, and probably will for a few coaches more if they'd try it. |
Well you point exactly. Seems like we agree mostly. What I dont like about the attitude, why I posted my post maybe hoping that my post would change their attitude. But maybe I was hoping too much.... I dont hate B, I just think that the current R setting makes it more competetive then B (IMO).
And to point 1. Why? Now I dont play in the box because I forced to play with a team I dont want to retire, but also dont want to play. If I could freezy my other team, I would return to the box and play. That I dont have the option of freezing, mean that every activeate time there could be 1more team to increase the amount of games that can be possibled scheduled.
The other points I can live with. But I wanted to play my rotters but kept on getting my HE because I was able to win and make them better. Whereas my rotters just not advanced and got the matches.
I cant see why freezing would decrease the games.
1: More coaches would be able to play several teams and yet play with their favoriet.
2: Those who does not care, would not have a reason to freeze a team and therefore still a lot of teams get sorted into the box.
3: Concept of box? Is it not to compete on equal grounds? Then it does not matter whether a coach freeze a team or not to only play with his favourite team. If his favorite team does not get games, then if he wants to play in the B would have to unfreeze the other teams.
Now the coach has 3 options. quite the box. delete his other teams or hope that his favorite team get selected (But this could resolve into the coach getting tired of playing his other teams, then he would leave and play in R where he can play his favorite team and get fair games). |
|
|
Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 13:42 |
|
| shadow46x2 wrote: | | if all of you B coaches are so high and mighty, then why not prove that you're such a hardcore coach, and play an open schedule in ranked?... |
I did for years. Whoever asked I played. It's loads more fun when everybody does it though - hence I stick to [B] now.
| Ehlers wrote: | | Well you point exactly. Seems like we agree mostly. What I dont like about the attitude, why I posted my post maybe hoping that my post would change their attitude. But maybe I was hoping too much.... I dont hate B, I just think that the current R setting makes it more competetive then B (IMO). |
Why is that so important? Just stop giving a damn what other people think/say/feel and play where you have fun. I don't think most people are in [B] 'cause they want to feel elitist. Some vocal members may - but not the majority.
Re: freezing - yes. You are not alone on that matter and people have asked for that option here on the forum. [B] is still in beta stage - and I'd hope the concept will be developed more and improved upon with time. |
|
|
jarvis_pants
Joined: Oct 30, 2008
|
i love when people miss understand a post you left and you come back a day later to find two pages of peopel slagging each other off too funny.
What i ment to say is recently had a few bad apple coaches disconnects and so on was wondering if there was any way of blocking them even if you can provide proof. |
_________________
"May Nuffle have mercy on your rolls." - St.Basher |
|
duttydave
Joined: Dec 16, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 14:19 |
|
I can think of one particular coach that I would not like to be scheduled against. It has nothing to do with fouling or bashing because those are accepted matters of fact in the Box. The reason I never wish to play this 'person' again is that I find him/her rude and arrogant when winning and even more bad mannered, ungracious and abusive when losing.
Therefore barring 1-3 coaches would be acceptable and suit me fine. Thankfully in all my matches I have not met another person as objectionable as the one described above. |
|
|
Chingis
Joined: Jul 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 14:26 |
|
| Ehlers wrote: | | I cant see why freezing would decrease the games. |
Well, any reduction of the teams will technically reduce the potential matchup quality. You may get more players in the Blackbox to increase it, but that's hard to quantify.
What you can easily do is give players a choice of teams without decreasing matchup quality to any substantial degree. How? When you activate, tick the teams you want to activate with, but at least three teams. Yes, it'll give worse matchups than activating all five/six/seven (say) of your teams, but this shouldn't be as noticable as, for instance the difference between three teams each and one team each (say if you "slept" all teams bar one).
I know I've banged on about it on some other post, but I think it's the best thing that could be done for Blackbox. |
|
|
sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
|
| Posted:
Jun 05, 2009 - 14:32 |
|
| Ehlers wrote: | I cant see why freezing would decrease the games.
1: More coaches would be able to play several teams and yet play with their favoriet.
2: Those who does not care, would not have a reason to freeze a team and therefore still a lot of teams get sorted into the box.
3: Concept of box? Is it not to compete on equal grounds? Then it does not matter whether a coach freeze a team or not to only play with his favourite team. If his favorite team does not get games, then if he wants to play in the B would have to unfreeze the other teams.
Now the coach has 3 options. quite the box. delete his other teams or hope that his favorite team get selected (But this could resolve into the coach getting tired of playing his other teams, then he would leave and play in R where he can play his favorite team and get fair games). |
Well, in an ideal world, I would be against, however, but let's face it honestly. Most of the time, we have around 6 to 10 coachs. When everyone has a few teams to offer (let's say 3) that's enough to have a fair draw. Now, if you could pick the team you want to play, that's potentially 6 to 10 teams to make the draw which reduces the fairness of the draw. Of course, would we have 20 to 30 coaches, would the problem be solved.
I am ok with a number of teams inactivated when you still have a miminum number of teams to offer, but if you can select your team, it might hurt the Box (in the way the Box currently is) |
_________________
Join NL Raises from the Ashes |
|
treborius
Joined: Apr 05, 2008
|
| Posted:
Jun 08, 2009 - 08:29 |
|
i've seen a lot of people complaining about B-coaches putting R down over the last weeks and we really shouldn't be putting people down who like to play in a different setting.
i mainly like the Box, cause it gives me random instant match-ups no matter what race i play (against) without negotiating with lots of people for a long amount of time.
while i would love to have a little more influence on which (of my!) teams i'm going (or not going) to play, i think the oppo-choice should still be purely random.
there are lots of rules on fumbbl that allows one to deal with unfriendly / disrespectful or cheating / dropping oppos so i really value the cons for putting people on Blacklist higher than the pros.
| shadow46x2 wrote: | | if all of you B coaches are so high and mighty, then why not prove that you're such a hardcore coach, and play an open schedule in ranked?... |
...who (of the B coaches) ever said (s)he was high and mighty (or something similar)?
...who (of the B coaches) ever said (s)he was a hardcore coach?
...quit making things up.
...ah and another thing: quit referring to the 0RR-exploit month after it's been disabled, that's just boredom
| JanMattys wrote: | Sometimes Shadow just posts something that makes me remember why I love him so much despite his grumpty attitude.
/me hugs Shadow. |
hmmm, this is ironic, right?  |
|
|
SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
|
| Posted:
Jun 08, 2009 - 09:01 |
|
| Quote: | | ...who (of the B coaches) ever said (s)he was a hardcore coach? |
Shadow did. While he was still playing [B} |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
|
|
|
| |
Gnomes are trash
Search
