| Poll |
| Which size of Skaven team (rosters in 1st post) would be better for a LRB5 tournament ? |
| 13 Player Team |
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53% |
[ 8 ] |
| 12 Player Team |
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6% |
[ 1 ] |
| 12 Player Team (including a Rat Ogre) |
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40% |
[ 6 ] |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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Rathstar
Joined: Jun 08, 2009
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 Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 16:53 |
 
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Hi,
I played 3rd edition a few years ago, and have recently got back into playing bloodbowl (joined Fumbbl a couple of months ago). Now I'll be entering my first tabletop tournament.
I'm wondering how bloody 5th edition is, and how many players I should put in my starting skaven team.
Main changes in 5th that I think affect how many players you should start with are:
Fouling: It's more risky and dirty player is less effective (also mighty blow doesn't help), however with IGMEOY is gone, the chance of eviction doesn't increase if I don't foul.
Big Guys: Normally in 4th I wouldn't consider big guys early, but now they have a 50:50 chance to be able use a reroll. This could lead to more big guys and their characteristic mightly blow skill.
Claw/RSC: Claw does nothing against skaven and RSC is gone.
Given these changes should I start my skaven team with 12 or 13 players ?
The teams for the tournament are bought with 1.1m gps, and after each game I can give one player a normal skill.
Here's the three options I'm considering:
13 player roster:
2 Storm Vermin
3 Gutter Runners
2 Throwers
6 Linemen
4 Rerolls
0 Fan Factor
(NB: I'd prefer to lose a thrower for a lineman to get 2 fan factor, but unfortunately I don't have a 7th lineman)
12 Player Roster:
2 Storm Vermin
4 Gutter Runners
2 Throwers
4 Linemen
4 Rerolls
2 Fan Factor
Lastly I was considering a Rat Ogre (never used one before), Rat Ogre Roster:
1 Rat Ogre
2 Storm Vermin
3 Gutter Runners
2 Thrower
4 Linemen
3 Rerolls
0 Fan Factor
(NB: I could swap a thrower for a lineman to get 2 fan factor)
Any advice on which roster to use would be appreciated.
Thanks
Rathstar |
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Reisender
Joined: Sep 29, 2007
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 17:05 |
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ok, i never played lrb, but
a big guy now gets a 50 percent chance of wasting a reroll.. and is more expensive.... so do NOT get a ratogre |
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Archevol
Joined: Dec 14, 2008
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 17:28 |
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A lot of peeps here will suggest not having throwers at all. I'm pro-thrower, but two seems a little excessive for tourney games, considering your team suggestions boast three or four AG4 players. You could trim for some cash there.
If you're going for wins, and are not that concerned about being out-strengthed, I'd suggest the first option and try and add some fan factor (another controversial issue in LRB5).
Personally, I quite like the cage-breaker aptitude offered by a str5 player, although ratogres are as weak as big guys get. And I like having a deeper bench. But what to lose to offset the cost? |
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runreallyfast
Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 17:29 |
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I would rather have a rat ogre than a thrower. Gutter runners are good at picking up balls, and better at lending assists.
Given that you only own six linemen, I would want to go rat ogre, 4 gutters, 2 storms, 5 linemen |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 17:51 |
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I would say most of the guys I've seen at TT tourneys take big guys and use doubles to Block them up / go Jugger, <i>and</i> blitz with them most turns. Catches me out every time; my thought process is 'he's good, this guy, he'll never... Oh crap!' 
I still think it's folly, myself, but good coaches are doing this (and n00bs, but good coaches too), so perhaps I miss things. Perhaps it's a style thing. Perhaps at base TR, they think it's dicey enough anyway, so a 5/6 MB 3 dicer is worth the risk. Although, again, they all seem to think low TR is more 'pure' - madness. People don't seem to foul often at all, I guess it takes a few games of progression to get to a stage where you can take advantage of lotto fouling.
I would be sure I had 4 GRunners, and 3RR is prolly enough. Remember Leader is a normal now on a Thrower, so you can get 4 the cheaty way too.
You really need a big TT bod to post, Piggy or Sticky or someone if they happen across the thread. They'll know better than me.  |
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Rathstar
Joined: Jun 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 18:31 |
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Thanks for all the quick replies. I'm really surpised that the rat ogre roster is leading the poll, I nearly didn't put it in at all. I'll definetely have to get some LRB5 games in with a rat ogre.
Purplegoo: Unfortunately players can only be given normal skills, so no big guy will have block, but your juggernaut suggestion is something i hadn't thought of and makes me consider the rat ogre more.
I'm worried about dropping both throwers (especially as I can take the leader skill later in the tournament to push my rerolls up to 4 if i go with the rat ogre). It would leave me with no ball handling skill rerolls. A couple of bad dice rolls at the start of a half could leave me with only 1 reroll for the rest of the half. Also sometimes a short pass or long pass is a useful option to have.
Taking on board everyones suggestions I will lose a thrower in the rat ogre roster to get 2 fan factor, with the thrower at the back behind the gutter runners in the classic inverse triangle formation. I will have to play some more games to see if I'd be happy taking the leap to having no throwers.
My proposed change for the 13 player roster would be to drop a reroll to upgrade a lineman to a 4th gutter runner and 3 fan factor, and I'll probably keep the proposed 12 player roster (without rat ogre) as it is. Out of the non rat ogre rosters which is better a 13th player or 4th reroll ?
Now I have to get some practice in with a rat ogres. As soon as my first Fumbbl team saves up enough money he'll make a nice partnership with my Claw/RSC/Guard Stormvermin
Regarding getting more LRB5 games, has anyone any experience of the French LRB5 client I saw mentioned on the forums, is it worth installing to get some LRB5 practice ?
Thanks again for the advice so far, and keep it flowing as the advice so far has been very helpful.
Rathstar |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 19:39 |
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I just played a TT tournament using skaven....
Skaven definately arent my best team but a 3/1/1 record and 4th place isnt bad. I noticed that Jimany and Cracol (aka decent TT skaven coaches) use a similar lineup/strategy to mine too so I guess my advice cant be too far misplaced.
I would treat LRB5 almost exactly the same as you treat LRB4. Certainly in TT tournaments because very few of the new skills actually get used and most of the cas/kill balance changes have no effect on tournament play (I'm guessing its a resurrection tournament). With skaven you can expect to take at least two casualties or KOs by halftime so thirteen players is prudent. You should have exactly thirteen players anyway, they're skaven
With 1.1 mil you can afford...
Rat Ogre
2 Storm Vermin
4 Gutter Runners
Thrower
5 Linerats
2 Re-rolls
Good skills to take are:
Leader (Thrower)
Guard (Storm Vermin)
Strip Ball/Sidestep/Block (Gutter Runner)
Wrestle/Kick (Linerat)
Guard/Break Tackle/Piling On (Rat Ogre)
The rat ogre is always a tricky choice. Its expensive but I think its worth trading a few re-rolls for. This guy gives you heaps of new options every turn and forces your opponent to think quite a bit harder than they really want to. Its not as if you can buy alot with the extra cash anyway. For reference: both teams with a rat ogre at the last tournament did excellently, both teams without one did a little miserably
PS, is this the Spiky Club tourney by any chance? |
_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.
"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced." |
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Purplegoo
Joined: Mar 23, 2006
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| Posted:
Sep 01, 2009 - 19:45 |
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No idea about that client, everything I've heard about it is good - however it's unproven compared to the one we currently use, which is tested to destruction! I can't imagine we'd be far away from adopting it if it's as good as I've heard., then bug testing it over a few hundred thousand games... Your other issue is finding games - you'll struggle to get lots and lots in comparison.
If you're only getting 1 skill a game, Juggering a RO just seems a waste when you'll want Block GRs, perhaps a Wrestler or a Stripper, maybe a Leader, a Kicker... There are just so many skills that pop into mind that would be more important if it were me running the team. But I'm not! I might go hardcore, take 2RR, Leader after game one, 13 men, with a RO to be a pain in the backside but not skilled. They're well expensive now considering that they're pretty crap in 4, why they put the price up is beyond me.
I would err towards 13 men if you could wangle it. At that TR with so few skills, Dorfs / Fundead that roll OK will make mincemeat of you.
What's the tourney, by the way?
(Silly got in just before me, same difference. I hate how long it takes me to write posts! ) |
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kwèk
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
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| Posted:
Sep 02, 2009 - 12:37 |
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I beleve you can also do:
1 rat ogre
2 Storm Vermin
4 Gutter Runners
5 Lineman
3 Rerolls
1 FF
even tough you will be outnumbered after a while (playing skavens) you'll be having access to 4 gutters, 2 block vermin and a Rat ogre. And you'll be having 3 rerolls, this is normally enough.
Rat Ogres at 1.100 K tournaments are not abnormal, and I do beleve (even tough they are overpriced) that RO can do miracles for your team if used well. (Ask Jokaero... not that he needed it during the eurobowl, bloody luck edited-by-goo-be-good-and-don't-swear-pls-thx)
Skills wich wil help a lot:
Juggernaut on your rat ogre, this will make you more comfortable
Frenzy on 1 storm vermin (makes the field smaller, is a great tactical choice, easier to 1 turn, and I prefer it over "tackle". (if used wisely you have 4 dice to knock a player down - without reroll -... even 6 if you get enough assists in)
Guard on the other vermin
Block on at least 1 gutter runner
Strip ball/wrestle (if you can stack) on 1 gutter runner |
_________________
It is a bit embarrassing to have been concerned with the human problem all one's life and find at the end that one has no more to offer by way of advice than 'try to be a little kinder'.
~Aldous Huxley~ |
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