Doowa
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
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 Posted:
Dec 21, 2003 - 02:16 |
 
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| Wombats wrote: | | A good change may be not needing a 4+ to roll over, get up or blitz. |
agree! (as you can read in my post above, I'm in generel glad about the new WA rule as I find it more in the spirit of a wild animal.)
| Holocaust wrote: | oh and the real topper i just had to fire my 110k 40sum sp'd mino, because i have to get the troll or what ever it is now
that was the real screw pretty much ruined my team for 6-10 games |
I don't wanna make a new discussion out of this (I think we have another thread for it anyway  ), but do you really need a big guy. Is he really that importent for a team. IMO big guys are unrelyable monsters, which they should be. |
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James
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Dec 21, 2003 - 02:36 |
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The problem with the Mino now is he has skills that he can't use. So whinny brats must have done something to limit the WA actions to Block or Test. Why does a Mino still have horns (fluff, obviously) if he can't even be counted on to move. Blitzing is in tune with blocking and is even more in the flavor of a WA. This is just stupid on GW's part. I mean you can disagree with some changes that have been made that weren't that great, but they should rename the Mino as a Cyclops and lose the horns, take 10K or so off and that would at least fit some kind of reasonable story. But wtf is up with a raging angry animal with horns who doesn't want to run down all those that stand in his way? |
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jokklas
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
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Jan 12, 2004 - 11:17 |
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With the current rules the WA aint good at bashing and not at carrying the ball.. hmm, how should he be used then 
If we wanna make them really Wild then maybe this could work:
Block - "No problem, hitting the closest guy aint a problem, I can do that" 
Blitz - "Hit someone? Sure, but since you wanna boss me around and attack other then those infront of me then I will only do it if you make a 2+ roll, otherwise I will stay put" 
Move - "Aw comon! I wanna Hit people! On a 4+ I will do as you say otherwise I'll activate the blitz and then you have no choice but to let me have my fun, you point I hit! If someone else have used up the blitz then I aint movin' an inch!" |
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Emberglow
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2004 - 18:34 |
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| jtruhe wrote: | | It seems that GW is trying to work its way towards eliminating big guys from the game altogether. Guess they cause to much blood. |
If this is the case, i gotta say it sounds amazing: if GW doesn't think too highly of big guys why introduce the hack-em-to-pieces ogre team? Who in his right mind would even consider playing a goblin team when you have the possibility to field 11 ogres?
oh, and yeah, wild animal sucks real bad as it is... The least they should do is remove the 4+ roll for making a blitz. and if that's considered too pwerful, they could re-introduce the restriction that wild animal may only blitz the closest enemy. |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 24, 2004 - 18:46 |
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just get rid of the roll on rolling over and it will be fine |
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AeoN2
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 24, 2004 - 20:03 |
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Randomness: Cannot be planned around, meaning new WA are unreliable.
With the old WA rules you could predict what your actions would lead to. Some would make mistakes and get trapped, others like me would bait for a WA trap as a tactic... now WA's can't be relied upon for any tactic short of one block on LoS.
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AeoN2 |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 25, 2004 - 02:54 |
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| AeoN2 wrote: | Randomness: Cannot be planned around, meaning new WA are unreliable.
With the old WA rules you could predict what your actions would lead to. Some would make mistakes and get trapped, others like me would bait for a WA trap as a tactic... now WA's can't be relied upon for any tactic short of one block on LoS.
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AeoN2 |
You do realize that that was the whole point don't you? Big guys are supposed to be unreliable, yet powerfull. Before the rules review, a WA had almost 0 unreliability, the only thing you had to worry about was getting him surrounded, and that wasn't hard to prevent. Big guys are not meant to be an "automatic" choice, they are meant to be unreliable enough that they have pros and cons, and with the recent changes, that is actually reflected in the game. |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 25, 2004 - 03:44 |
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In Aeon2s defence i think that was the point he was trying to make  |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 25, 2004 - 04:17 |
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Could be. =) That's the fun of text communication, without voice inflection you can't tell if someone is talking about something or bitching about something, since it's almost always the latter with this issue, I assumed it was again in this case, particualry since that last line sounds like pure complaint. |
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gigantorjap
Joined: Dec 13, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 25, 2004 - 06:44 |
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i thinkt the main point is that it is too unreliable now. The ogre and troll are way better. They mino and rat ogre are overpriced in comparison for paying for stats/skills they really won't use.
Keep current rule and make it a 3+ to do anything but block would go a long way.
ogre bonehead 1 in 6 = out about 2.6 turns a game.
troll is the same as long as u keep someone next to him but we'll round up to 3 turns a game.
mino/rat if he gets off 4--and i'm being generous blocks he'll miss 6 turns a game!!! that's ridiculous and I'll doubt you'll be blitzing with him so the other 6 mine as well be wasted too. if you lower it a 3+ it becomes miss 4 turns a game with 8 turns to maybe blitz. alot better and more reasonable. |
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MickeX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 26, 2004 - 00:53 |
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I like the new WA. I have two suggested tweaks that might convince some sceptics:
a) A WA may blitz one of the closest standing opponents without rolling, but cannot move further after the blocking is resolved.
b) No roll to unstun. If the roll fails when a WA is prone, he will still stand up but not do anything else.
With a) it becomes possible to 'play the WA' again in a way: the opponent team can put a taunting guy close to the WA to stop him fom blitzing anyone else. The WA team members can, on the other hand, clear the pitch for the WA by knocking over all opponents that are closer than the one the WA wants to blitz. |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 26, 2004 - 03:33 |
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| MickeX wrote: | | No roll to unstun. If the roll fails when a WA is prone, he will still stand up but not do anything else.. |
Rumor is, they are considering just this change. With this alone, WA players would get a lot of usability back. |
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jokklas
Joined: Jan 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 26, 2004 - 14:18 |
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Agree that they would be playable if there are no rolls to simply "roll over" and if they miss the roll when standing up to make a blitz/move they simply stand up but do no more. |
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R_Spiskit
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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 Posted:
Jan 26, 2004 - 14:40 |
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| Quote: |
I wouldn't be surprised if they made the mino even worse in the next rules review, along with giving all the other big guys more negatrates. It seems that GW is trying to work its way towards eliminating big guys from the game altogether. Guess they cause to much blood.
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I agree with this. In the real league I play in, we all vote on rules (our own annual review) and we have now ditched big guys altogether. This does seem to be the direction GW are pushing big guys in. |
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AeoN2
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 26, 2004 - 14:56 |
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| Mr-Klipp wrote: |
You do realize that that was the whole point don't you? Big guys are supposed to be unreliable, yet powerfull. Before the rules review, a WA had almost 0 unreliability, the only thing you had to worry about was getting him surrounded, and that wasn't hard to prevent. Big guys are not meant to be an "automatic" choice, they are meant to be unreliable enough that they have pros and cons, and with the recent changes, that is actually reflected in the game. |
They are supposed to be unreliable, yet powerful, I agree... but my experience with them after rules review is that they are practicly useless, atleast for the cost of them, with no RR using, no pro [edit: except on doubles ofcourse], and only blocking being possible to plan around I would go so far as to say I would rather have a lineman than a WA, for any team.
Imho they don't have enough pro's right now... perhaps that just means they are balanced right and experienced players just realize that a reliable player suits them better...
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AeoN2 |
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