theopacman
Joined: Jan 26, 2004
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 Posted:
Feb 29, 2004 - 04:16 |
 
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OK my 2cents worth WA players are over priced for what they are and it seems the general consensus is that coaches just don't like em
I think this new rule has made them less 'wild' as they stand around more akin to a stupid animal not a wild one.
My rules idea
WA need to make a 4+ roll everytime and if they fail they must block or blitz the nearest opponent (I would say roll over would be exempt from this but stand up would still require a blitz)
If noone in blitz range you then your WA stands around looking for an opponent or moves directly towards the nearest opponent-coaches choice
Not playtested but would be interested in what other coaches think |
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slackman
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 29, 2004 - 06:17 |
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this sounds an awful lot like the original WA rule. the only difference is it used to be a 2+ roll to not go "berserk" and get a free blitz move. if anything, id go towards that rather than your suggested 3- for a free blitz. |
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theopacman
Joined: Jan 26, 2004
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Feb 29, 2004 - 07:18 |
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Its not a free blitz it still counts as your team blitz for that turn |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Feb 29, 2004 - 09:31 |
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So it is move first theopacman? That would lead to the "Play the WA, not the ball" ie. "Wild-animal-traps" that were the point why WA was changed at all. If it is not move first, you simply blitz with another player first and your WA rule becomes a no brainer as long as none of your own players is in a square next to your WA.
-Mnemon |
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theopacman
Joined: Jan 26, 2004
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Feb 29, 2004 - 10:07 |
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good point maybe make it a must be moved before blitz,altough maybe too much extra to keep track of in a turn.
Or maybe thats the risk the coach takes is that if the mino fails his WA roll after another player has already blitzed and noone to block he's called for an illegal procedure....or would that be too harsh.
Or if he fails the roll and can't blitz then he does nothing,but i guess this is getting back to that standing around instead of being wild problem again.
Another idea for discussion is WA as is now but allow assists as per really stupid........conjures up an image of 'handlers or teammates prodding the wild animal ino the action they desire it to take. |
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slackman
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 01, 2004 - 04:56 |
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dude, what did mnemon just say? if you have to move first, opponents simply have to surround your WA to force a turnover before you have a chance to do anything in your next turn. this is the main reason WA was changed. i still think the original WA was the best idea. but then, i really like skaven... |
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Walkere
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 01, 2004 - 05:44 |
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I agree with just about all that's been said about the new WA rules being horrible. I just started playing a Skaven team in a league and I refused to take the rat ogre because he's useless.
It may be true that the WA are supposed to be unpredictable. But they shouldn't be useless. A Really Stupid roll (with no way to avoid it, like a troll can) on anything but a block is just ridiculous. It makes sense if the minotaur or rat ogre is trying to move and not hit someone (since all they want to do is break stuff), but why do you have to test to make a blitz?
I think they would be a lot more useful if (like someone else suggested) you still didn't have to test to block, it was a 2+ to blitz/stand up/roll over (making it like a bonehead. Also, if the wild animal doesn't actually _hit_ someone with his blitz, he should be penalized the next turn, so you can't use the blitz just to move him more easily), and then a 4+ to move without hitting someone. It would balance them much more like other big guys with bone head (the 2+ is like a bonehead, while the no test for blocking and the 4+ for strategic moving balances out), and make a ton more sense within the context of their characters and their skills (in the case of the minotaur). What kind of wild animal is going to complain about getting a running sart before plowing someone over? _Especially_ if he has big pointy horns?!?
- Walkere |
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slackman
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 01, 2004 - 06:05 |
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i think we really need to apply occhams razor here. too many differing situations is going to confuse the crap out of the new/recently involved bb coach. hell, its starting to confuse me here and ive been around the block a few times. it really needs to become a 2+ to do ANYTHING, but we need to rework what happens if the roll fails. such as going off in a random (d direction and hitting whoever's closest along that path. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 01, 2004 - 15:13 |
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Well my guess is they dont just want to make it +2 to do anything because then the Mino/RO would be better than the trolls/ogres. The horns/frenzy trait are pretty good and they probably want to make a crappier negative trait to offset that.
IMO |
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slackman
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 01, 2004 - 19:37 |
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ok, so a 2+ on anything is better than RS w/out an assist. but its no better than bonehead. rat ogres cost more and dont have horns, while the minitaur has lower armor. but i do see your point. so why dont they ditch the foul on a 2+ and leave the rest alone? 2+ block/blitz, 4+ everything else. sure, you might still have an occasional player declaring the blitz and not hitting anyone, but really, who is going to waste their blitz like that?
but i still think sending the WA off in a random d8 when they go berserk would be a fun idea, would add to the unpredictable nature, and still allow the beast to be generally useful. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 01, 2004 - 21:49 |
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I never played WA with the "beserk" rule, but it sounds alot more "realistic" of a WA trait AND is definitely unique among the negative traits.
I like something like
1) They still have to move 1st to start a turn (because they have NO patience) and
2) on a 1 they attack the closest creature to them (either block or blitz)
So they could still get trapped on a 1 if standing next to an Ogre AND if they are in YOUR backfield they would attack a teammate.
Could lead to interesting decisions on whether to stick them on the line or in the back. |
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TheLegend
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 01, 2004 - 21:49 |
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holocaust: you need to lay off the crack.
The rest of you guys: have you seen the NEW! new wild animal rules (i.e. recently posted here in the FUMBBL forums)
they appear to work rather nicely
I'll try to find / bump the other WA thread so you all can see it. |
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Anadrael
Joined: Dec 28, 2003
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 Posted:
Mar 12, 2004 - 20:07 |
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where is this rule change.
The living rule book download today 12/03 does not have the same rule as funbbl if funbbl is going to change the way a rule work like this I will stop playing because I only found out about this during a game and can't see how these rule are changed |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Mar 13, 2004 - 01:25 |
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| Anadrael wrote: | where is this rule change.
The living rule book download today 12/03 does not have the same rule |
That's because the current living rule book has not been edited to include the official changes from this years rules review. Blame Fanatic Games for being lazy about re-editing it if you want to blame anyone., but we are using the most current official rules on the site. This page will show you everything that was changed in this years rules review:
http://www.specialist-games.com/bloodbowl/Rules_rev.htm |
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bigdog
Joined: Mar 06, 2004
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Mar 13, 2004 - 22:52 |
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I hate my Minotaur. I would never have taken him if I knew what a pain he is.
The only thing I would change is the 4+ to turn over.
(One game I got knocked down and stunned on Turn 1 and did not roll over until Turn 7. and Turn 8 I still wasn't able to stand up). |
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