Skolopender
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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 Posted:
Oct 14, 2009 - 15:52 |
 
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Hiya sportsfans...
Just to sum this whole concession business up.
This is not a thread about being in favor or against the rules, it is to see if anything needs clarification. So please state if you find anything contradicory to the other or simply unclear.
From the site rules:
- Concessions are to be made only when there is merit for them.
- In this context, merit means that the conceding team needs a reasonable in-game reason for conceding. The team taking excessive casualties is one acceptable reason to concede. Other reasons include having a very distinct lack of players left to play with, or being clearly outplayed in terms of touchdowns.
Conceding when none of the above circumstances are fulfilled will require admin approval.
- If you are unsure if your particular game qualifies for a concession, please consult the FUMBBL administration for a ruling.
- A match where the administration rules that a concession is acceptable, even though it does not fulfil the policy stated here will have its match report page marked to reflect this.
From BiggieB's blog:
Concession guidelines
I run into quite a few illegal concessions, I think some of these are due to missunderstanding. Now I have a guide to go after which roughly looks like this:
Turn:
1-2: definitely unacceptable
3-4: mostly unacceptable - check other conditions too
5-12: check other conditions
13-14: mostly unacceptable - check other conditions too
15-16: definitely unacceptable
Number of players available to field (including KOs):
1-6 vs 11+ -> okay to concede
1-5 vs 9-10 -> okay to concede
1-4 vs 8 -> okay to concede
1-3 vs 6-7 -> okay to concede
TDs:
0-4+ -> okay (i.e. pretty much will never happen)
Cas:
3+ perms -> okay
Anything else - almost certainly unacceptable.
Now these are not set in stone and there are exception for every case. I would certeanly urge you to ask an admin before concedeing. But this is pretty much what we go after in general. Now you know: hopefully this will lead to less accidental illegal concessions
From Woodstock's blog:
Illegal Concessions
Although concessions are part of the LRB, here on FUMBBL we have another rule set that applies to them. BiggieB once wrote a blog about it. It contains a good example of how we look at concessions. Remember it is only a guideline.
Nowadays I see a lot of concessions in Ranked and BlackBox with the main reason to "save the team". This is not allowed according to the FUMBBL rules. Ranked and BlackBox are competitive divisions where winning should be your main goal. If you want to build a nice team, go to League.
I understand that due to its size and activity Ranked has become a more friendly division, and people have the possibility to focus on team building more. But I will punish those that concede to "save their team" and break the FUMBBL rules.
I don't care about excuses like 'my opponent didn't mind' or 'I want to enter the next major' nor situations 'where your apo is gone and your opponent got the ref' or 'when you are 1-0 ahead but it is starting to look bad'.
You accepted a match, you were aware of the possibilities, you play it. You have been warned.
Woodstock
PS For those that will start to search in my match history for concessions, my concessions of the last 2 years:
2008-06-07 2008-05-29 2008-04-07 2008-04-07 2007-06-05 (Havn't botherd to put in the links)
PPS I know a lot of people will come with the argument that they have to play matches they didn't want to, or are forced into games where they have to suffer several injuries before they can quit.
I'll repeat: You accepted a match, you were aware of the possibilities, you play it. |
_________________
Lobbying for a Troll team. If Bonehead Ogres can have one, why not one for Trolls? Power to the Trolls! |
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Emphasy
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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Oct 14, 2009 - 15:57 |
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seems to me that admins, once again, doesnt follow already set siterules when proclaiming how things are supposed to run. You Go Girls!!! |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:00 |
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Where do we not follow the rules? Explain.
Edit: I made the blog without any other admin knowing about it. They may not share my statements, or they do. I don't know. |
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DukeTyrion
Joined: Feb 18, 2004
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:04 |
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Concessions are for wusses anyway 
(Can we get something on the coach home page saying how many times they have conceeded?)  |
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Skolopender
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:06 |
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| Woodstock wrote: | | Edit: I made the blog without any other admin knowing about it. They may not share my statements, or they do. I don't know. |
OK, I simply collected all that I knew off as official or semi-official stuff regarding concessions. So we could have a discussion, about what might be needed to clarify it further, as there seems to be a need for it. |
_________________
Lobbying for a Troll team. If Bonehead Ogres can have one, why not one for Trolls? Power to the Trolls! |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:08 |
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I know, I don't mind, I just thought it would be wise of me to say that  |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:12 |
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Ok,
but I think one thing should be clarified. Concessions when real life issues intrude mid-game. They could be an emergency situation (such as a partner or parent wielding a broom or other weapon and demanding that you stop playing "that damned game"). Should, in this case, the remainder of the match be postponed, or is a concession in this case sometimes allowable. Also, does it matter if it is ranked, or Black Box, in this situation?
Grod. |
_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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freak_in_a_frock
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:13 |
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I back Woodstock up. Not only because i haven't conceded a game in years (the last time i conceded it was because my chair broke and i had to go to hospital to get stitches). Also not just because i am an admin.
Recently in the box there have been too many concessions. Conceding because you 'might' get some players hurt is unacceptable. The moment we start allowing coaches to concede games as a preventative step is the moment that coaches can start choosing which games to play in the box.
Recently i had to judge on a concession by a coach that had used his apoth, and had no other injuries. He had killed one of his opponents players and had the ball.
His opponent had got the ref so he conceded in case he took more injuries. Is this really acceptable? Personally i think it is cowardly, and i told the coach so, but looking closer at the concession rules it also is against that rule. He still had 12 fit players and was in a dominating position.
Why anyone would concede is still beyond me. Why would you pay your opponent for beating up your team? |
Last edited by freak_in_a_frock on %b %14, %2009 - %16:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:14 |
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| Grod wrote: | Ok,
but I think one thing should be clarified. Concessions when real life issues intrude mid-game. They could be an emergency situation (such as a partner or parent wielding a broom or other weapon and demanding that you stop playing "that damned game"). Should, in this case, the remainder of the match be postponed, or is a concession in this case sometimes allowable. Also, does it matter if it is ranked, or Black Box, in this situation?
Grod. |
Real life is a valid reason to concede in any division.
You might get blocked in the first place, but after a talk with the admins you are cleared and unblocked. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:16 |
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| Woodstock wrote: | | Grod wrote: | Ok,
but I think one thing should be clarified. Concessions when real life issues intrude mid-game. They could be an emergency situation (such as a partner or parent wielding a broom or other weapon and demanding that you stop playing "that damned game"). Should, in this case, the remainder of the match be postponed, or is a concession in this case sometimes allowable. Also, does it matter if it is ranked, or Black Box, in this situation?
Grod. |
Real life is a valid reason to concede in any division.
You might get blocked in the first place, but after a talk with the admins you are cleared and unblocked. |
Ok great, but I couldn't find anything in the Concession rules about this. |
_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.
Oscar Wilde |
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Tesifonte
Joined: Sep 06, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 14, 2009 - 16:16 |
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Psssst boys...I have some info...
WOODSTOCK IS A ROBOT! |
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TaChIkOmA! \o/ |
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Emphasy
Joined: Jun 14, 2004
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:17 |
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I was told that concessions due to real life issues are not good enough reason. Games can be reloaded. |
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Skolopender
Joined: Jun 17, 2006
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| Posted:
Oct 14, 2009 - 16:18 |
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| Grod wrote: | Ok,
but I think one thing should be clarified. Concessions when real life issues intrude mid-game. They could be an emergency situation (such as a partner or parent wielding a broom or other weapon and demanding that you stop playing "that damned game"). Should, in this case, the remainder of the match be postponed, or is a concession in this case sometimes allowable. Also, does it matter if it is ranked, or Black Box, in this situation?
Grod. |
Yeah I would like to know this aswell.
I have never conceded, and don't think I ever will... Only possibility of a concession I could see, was if something real life happend, that would take me away from the game. Then I would offer my oppo a concession, or a reschedluing for the rest of the game. I this allowed?
Example: Was playing a game vs. X, a friend called me on the phone saying his car had broken down, and was on his way to a meeting. A quite important meeting. And he asked if I could come and pick him up. I explained the siuation to my opponent, and asked if he wanted me to concede or we could finish the game later. We arrange to finish it later, but was I wrong to offer him a concession? |
_________________
Lobbying for a Troll team. If Bonehead Ogres can have one, why not one for Trolls? Power to the Trolls!
Last edited by Skolopender on %b %14, %2009 - %16:%Oct; edited 1 time in total |
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Meech
Joined: Sep 15, 2005
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Oct 14, 2009 - 16:18 |
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I am insulted that my blog was left off from this clearly "anti concession" thread.
Hater! |
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Putting the FU in fumbbl since 9/2005 |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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| Posted:
Oct 14, 2009 - 16:28 |
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From the other thread:
| Fela wrote: | The comment section of Woodstock's blog doesn't really seem the right place for an indepth discussion of admin sanity (among other issues  ), so I thought I'd open this thread for that.
The main issue with enforcing the concession rule for me is, that the rules are severely lacking precision (or rather interpretations seem to differ). There's a guideline Woody quoted from BBs blog (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=blog&coach=19656&op=viewcomments&id=5598) that up to his blog post I always considered a minority opinion and more like a joke, really.
- there is no differentiation between races (2 Wardancer might actually have a realistic chance at winning against 11 tackle-less skeletons - 2 BoBs certainly won't)
- the Gate is not considered (there's a difference between conceding 200k winnings and 10k)
- KOs are considered available players - even if it's the second half and there will most likely be only 1 drive
- PERMs INcrease the chance that you are allowed to concede when they should actually DEcrease it (they happened anyway, if anything a concession is a means of avoiding that BEFORE it happens)
- the peak for concession likelyness is in midgame when it SHOULD be early in the game (early player losses mean you are outmatched more severly and more likely to lose additional players)
So for me what it really comes down to is that as long as the concession rule as stated by BB neither is precise nor makes sense I will continue to ignore it and stick with the sensible ruleset stated in fumbbl's rules page, simply applying my personal interpretation on 'excessive casualties' and 'very distinct lack of players'. Luckily i am never unsure about my interpretational skills, so i can safely ignore the part about contacting an admin  |
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