BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Jan 09, 2004 - 18:50 |
 
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| DoubleSkulls wrote: |  Fair enough - as a relative newbie to fumbbl I haven't been over these arguments before and obviously you have. I am appreciative of the effort that goes into running something like this and certainly didn't intend to cause any offence. |
Like I tried to point out above, this really wasn't aimed at you, Ian. To put it into TBB terms for you, it was aimed at Toby and the little tiny Toby inside of everyone out there (myself included).
My disclaimer just happened to be a little... overshadowed, methinks. |
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Afro
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 09, 2004 - 20:16 |
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I think there is a very simple rule: if you want (or don't want) something to happen, you have to do (or avoid) some other things to reach your goal. If you want to get non-bashy opponents, maybe RCZ on a Beastman as his first skill is not the best idea. And are really coaches out there thinking having a team slaughtered to get an MVP and 10k is fun for their opponent ? Really ?
Maybe there should be a major rule change: every time a bashy team loses a game to a non-bashy one, the leading cas producer of the bashy team should get at least one NI, 'cause that's the major problem to agile teams: if they lose, they normally lose not only the game but a few good players, too. Bashy teams may lose a game, but the don't suffer any further damage, they get a few good SPPs through cas instead.
I think there is no need to change anything in open league; like it was said before, if you want to do some hurting, play or organize tournaments where none of your opponents can dodge you. Or try something totally different: try playing a team that is able to win a game against all 11 opponent players, not only against 7 or 8. Yes, that's weird, but it can be fun, too  |
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Jugular
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 09, 2004 - 20:18 |
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The Open Format should not be changed. It's libertarian attitude is perfect. I agree with BMM (maybe i wouldn't put it so forcefully but i still agree). ADDING a medal system for playing every other race once is a good idea as I stated before. The benefit given for doing that is the next problem. I thought my first idea that only medal winners can play in the FUMBBL cup would be good. If not I suggest a coach rating boost. Things that effect the team directly are not the best idea IMO. Other rewards suggested aren't especially fair either. No. of games played counts against people who can't play so often. Cas's and the like just end up rewarding bashy coaches. Just my 2 cents  |
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swilhelm73
Joined: Oct 06, 2003
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Jan 09, 2004 - 21:38 |
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I'm overall opposed to the idea of blind challenges replacing open. However, if we were to seriously consider it, choosing coaches you don't want to play would be an *absolute* must. There are some coaches on FUMBBL I don't enjoy playing with and I'm sure that's true of most people.
The medal idea, or even easier, a races played against breakdown on the team screen, would be fine though, IMO.
Overall though I'm not sure what the problem is that we really need to change open. If you want to play in a more strict format choose to join a league or a tournament... |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 09, 2004 - 21:49 |
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| BadMrMojo wrote: | | The powers that be have done all this for the enjoyment of everyone here with no aim, hope, or even mechanism for rewarding themselves. |
Although if anyone was to send me goblin wolf riders, I wouldn't say no... (hint hint)  |
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Mr-Klipp
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 09, 2004 - 21:53 |
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| DoubleSkulls wrote: | | BadMrMojo wrote: | | DoubleSkulls wrote: | | ...A normal structured league wouldn't give you that luxury. |
That's true, but Open division isn't a normal structured league. That is not the aim of Open. If you want to have a normal, structured league, create one. |
Fair enough - as a relative newbie to fumbbl I haven't been over these arguments before and obviously you have. I am appreciative of the effort that goes into running something like this and certainly didn't intend to cause any offence. |
Since you said you are new, I figured this might be worth mentioning. When he says create one, you can easily create one here. By starting your own group and selecting a scheduling option, you can create just this sort of thing with all the convenience that the site provides. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 09, 2004 - 21:56 |
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New edit?
| BadMrMojo wrote: | | The powers that be have done all this for the enjoyment of everyone here with no aim, hope, or even mechanism for rewarding themselves (except for Klipp, who is a gobbo-grubbing man-whore). |
Better?
 |
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Christer
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Wow.. Lots of activity in this thread..
I have a few things I'd like to clear out:
* Open will remain schedule-free.
I like the open format and how it lets you decide how you want to play. If you want to play only against elves, feel free to do so. I've tried running scheduled things and I feel that it's simply not worth the effort. With only a handful coaches, I was spending quite alot of time mediating and trying to help people set up games.. With the number of active coaches FUMBBL has now, it's simply not possible. This is also the reason there are no challenges. It's simply too much work.
If someone wants a challenge system or a scheduled tournament, feel free to set it up. EvolveToAnarchism did with his A.N.A.R.C.H.I.S.T group, but it died off for whatever reason. We have plenty of tournaments going on so I'm sure you can find one to join or make a new one if you feel you can do better.
* Medals/Ribbons/Patches
I like this idea. It adds something to strive for without interfering with the system. There are plenty of ways it could be done and it will obviously need some thought as to what is best.
However, handing out prizes (gold, FF, SPPs, whatever) for gaining these medals is something I am rather reluctant to do. Just having them show up on rosters / coach page should be incentive enough. Bowlbot could even be made to mark coaches with some kind of flag. |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 10, 2004 - 00:35 |
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ok...
if a medal system was introduced into open where you obtained a ribbon for playing each race an equal amount of times (a percentage perhaps). the ribbon system would come into effect about 20 games into the teams career... now the percentages wouldn't have to be equal but similar to encourage variation in opponents.
you could also have a selector in the open tables which show you ribboned teams and non ribboned teams... this would easily show you which are the best all round coaches at playing matches against all types of races rather than the best "i can beat lots of wood elf and high elf teams..." |
Last edited by SnakeSanders on %b %10, %2004 - %00:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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A reply from Christer. Wow.
And one of my ideas may be good? 
As I tried to sort of say at the start of all this. Everyone should have the ability to do whatever they want, absolutely. Just be nice to encourage a bit of a wider range but in no way enforce it.
I mean if my team could earn a medal for playing every other race, or whatever, I'd probably have a go at getting it. Even if there was no other reason than a cheap, pointless, small graphic. Deffinately not SPP's or any team bonus as that would fundamentally alter the game, but something fumbbl related like an honour roll or some such might be welcomed.
Not that I'd be likely to get it, but I'd probably try. |
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MickeX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2004 - 00:05 |
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I like the ribbon idea. I'd like to get a virtual badge saying I'm a decent lizards player because I could get a 50% win ratio when playing one game against each other team. And in the end, a big badge saying I'm an experienced BB coach who has played every race vs race combo there is... of course it's open to "cheating" in different ways, but it doesn't really matter much to me.
About a blind challenge division: how about a blind challenge where a bot chooses an opponent for you - considering what races your team has played before? That way the poor elf team won't have to play dwarves twice until they've done a full cycle. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2004 - 05:38 |
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| MickeX wrote: | ...
About a blind challenge division: how about a blind challenge where a bot chooses an opponent for you - considering what races your team has played before? That way the poor elf team won't have to play dwarves twice until they've done a full cycle. |
That's just one of the several wonderful things you can do with Div T. Make your own blind challenge tourney! Just need to figure out a way to make the blind matchups (pen and paper, roll dice... low-tech but it works) and away you go. You can even manually override the results by looking at what teams people just played.
Wow. That's exactly what you asked for and it already exists. All you have to do is put a minor amount of effort into it. Sounds fun. I'll bring in some zons or skaven when you get it set up (to dilute your dwarf pool). |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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Jan 11, 2004 - 06:00 |
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The ribbons are probably pretty easy to implement you don't really need percentages. To earn and keep the ribbon you just need to have played each type of team at least once for every 30 games (there are 19 different open teams, leaving some room to maneuver in to keep the ribbon attainable). Khemri teams will love this change as it gives them more opportunities to play. It will probably however be very hard for them to get a ribbon for themselves.
This will getting the right games a bit hard though. A better alternative might be that you need to have played at least 15 different races in 20 games, that'll probably work better. |
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caileanhawk
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2004 - 06:21 |
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Or have levels of badges for the difficulty of attaining the task...
Example:
Gold for playing all 19 different races
Silver for 15 different races
Bronze for 10 different races
Sort of like the Olympics
I still think we should award big accomplishments, 100 games, 50 wins...things like that (again with different levels). I now agree about no awards that would affect the actual games.
Different graphics on the teams page would be quite cool.
Hey this team has 10 medals.
Might even be good for the players as well, maybe even coaches |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Jan 11, 2004 - 08:59 |
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I like option 1. Why not make a new division called Blind Open. Teams placed in this division obtain games by simply putting their team up with the TR/SR range they are willing to play as mentioned. Then fumbbl.com automatically allocates opponents based on who else has put their teams up. Since fumbbl.com is so big now, if enough people made teams and regularly played them in this division, it should work. Maybe place this division between open and division x, so that open teams can always transfer to blind open.
I think many of the more skillful coaches would relish the chance to have some teams in such a division. |
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Posted:
Jan 10, 2004 - 00:36