farresto
Joined: Sep 13, 2008
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 Posted:
Mar 19, 2010 - 19:56 |
 
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Hello everyone,
Yesterday I placed my brand new Skaven Team in the GameFinder:
http://fumbbl.com/teams/First+and+Foremost.html
A coach with a higher TS offered me to play:
http://fumbbl.com/teams/Run+Kill+Run.html
I analyzed the team, and figured it was an equal match, as he only had 7 players and the Treeman is not so dangerous as long as you keep your distance (and maybe with a little luck it takes root).
What both the other coach and I didn't realize was that we had a TS difference of 41, which is +1 from the site's rules unfortunately.
Normally, I would think that a TS difference of 40 is a little bit too much, but now I believe this does not apply to all cases. In this particular case, the final result was 4-3 in my favor. And I wouldn't say I'm an exceptional player 
So my question is: Do you think this rule is useful and representative of "fair matches"?
I understand that this was implemented to avoid unstoppable teams cherrypicking and play one-sided games.
But at the same time, it restricts coaches from making their own decisions. In my case, I still believe the match was fair as it was (without even counting the handicaps), and that either of us could have won.
Would it be really dangerous to remove this restriction from the site?
I'd really like to hear other coaches' opinions.
Thanks! |
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Woodstock
Joined: Dec 11, 2004
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Mar 19, 2010 - 20:01 |
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Yes, it would be harmful to the site, and no, finding an opponent within 10TS is not a problem below TR200. |
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Leijonet
Joined: Jul 01, 2006
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Mar 19, 2010 - 20:04 |
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/agree
+/- 40 TS gives you an incredibly wide array of potential opponents. If you can't find an opponent because of this very loose restriction you are doing something wrong. |
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Leijonet -Winging justice since 6/9-08 |
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farresto
Joined: Sep 13, 2008
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Mar 19, 2010 - 20:15 |
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| Woodstock wrote: | | Yes, it would be harmful to the site, and no, finding an opponent within 10TS is not a problem below TR200. |
Why do you think it would be harmful to the site?
| Leijonet wrote: | /agree
+/- 40 TS gives you an incredibly wide array of potential opponents. If you can't find an opponent because of this very loose restriction you are doing something wrong.
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I'm not saying I can't find an opponent, I'm saying that this rule might not be as representative as it was originally designed. The restriction might be loose, but it could probably be looser without any harm  |
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bxnyc
Joined: Jun 23, 2009
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Mar 19, 2010 - 20:19 |
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farresto- this situation you are in is very much an outlier to the normal +/- 40ts
if you look in the middle (150 tr/ts) then the difference in the power of a team is usually enormous.
even games with +/- 30 ts are normally very one sided if there are no handis |
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Rijssiej
Joined: Jan 04, 2005
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Mar 19, 2010 - 20:21 |
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No, it is not a useful and representative of "fair matches".
For most teams 40 TS is far too much to represent a fair match, 10-15 TS diff is the most I would find a fair match.
On the other hand the TS formula is massively flawed for undermanned teams. Like the match you played was a fair match in my book but not within the 40 TS rule. |
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Arthas85
Joined: Apr 27, 2006
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Jun 07, 2010 - 10:47 |
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Calthor
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
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Jun 07, 2010 - 10:49 |
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No. It's legal, but fair? No. Purely looking at the teams (not the coaches' CR), the Dwarf team had a big advantage. |
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TheCount
Joined: Apr 18, 2005
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Jun 07, 2010 - 11:32 |
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Imho there should be a decrease of the range to 30 +/- TS and additionally the rule should affect all teams between TR 1 to 249.
There are coaches who cherrypick noobs with 95/83 Goblins by playing their 300/260 KillerChaos. I know these are rare cases, but this would be an easy and good rulechange (at least the 2nd part of my suggestion). |
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SillySod
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
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Jun 07, 2010 - 11:35 |
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| TheCount wrote: | | There are coaches who cherrypick noobs with 95/83 Goblins by playing their 300/260 KillerChaos. I know these are rare cases, but this would be an easy and good rulechange (at least the 2nd part of my suggestion). |
Link?
I know that teams above a certain TS are exempt and teams below 100TS are also exempt... but I thought that they could not play against each other. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jun 07, 2010 - 12:24 |
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| TheCount wrote: | | Imho there should be a decrease of the range to 30 +/- TS and additionally the rule should affect all teams between TR 1 to 249. |
After all this time is it really worth changing now when we'll need different rules for FBB.
Further restrictions will make it tougher to get games in some time zones.
If anything for FBB the limit should be increased to allow hiring Morg.
I don't see the rule doing much to prevent cherry picking though. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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Jun 07, 2010 - 12:29 |
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| koadah wrote: | | TheCount wrote: | | Imho there should be a decrease of the range to 30 +/- TS and additionally the rule should affect all teams between TR 1 to 249. |
After all this time is it really worth changing now when we'll need different rules for FBB.
Further restrictions will make it tougher to get games in some time zones.
If anything for FBB the limit should be increased to allow hiring Morg.
I don't see the rule doing much to prevent cherry picking though. |
Rather implement:
After all stars, Babes, apo, wiz and bribes are purchased additional Morgs can be hired for each full 30TV  |
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Shraaaag
Joined: Feb 15, 2004
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Jun 07, 2010 - 12:35 |
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Allthough the exact range (+/-40TS) and the inaccuracy of any strength measurement can be argued against. The restriction is there simply because it's a competitive division. Games with huge strength difference aren't very competitive (even if nuffle can make them look that way).
Blood Bowl itself (if you read the fluff in past rulebooks) doesn't seem to really care about 'fair games'. I seem to remember one instance where a (halfling?) team was mistaken for a pre-game appetizer, and were eaten by there opponent. |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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Jun 07, 2010 - 13:10 |
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I think when we swap over to TV, opening up the range might be fine. Inducements even up games a lot more effectively and consistently than handicaps ever did, though I think there's still a noticeable advantage for the naturally stronger team.
As it stands, even the +/- 40 TS is only fair with 3+ handicaps in most cases. |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jun 07, 2010 - 13:14 |
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| maysrill wrote: | I think when we swap over to TV, opening up the range might be fine. Inducements even up games a lot more effectively and consistently than handicaps ever did, though I think there's still a noticeable advantage for the naturally stronger team.
As it stands, even the +/- 40 TS is only fair with 3+ handicaps in most cases. |
Inducements can only go that far.
Something that keeps the cherrypicking wolves in line will probably be needed ayway.
Really, you can't imagine how far can some people go to get unfair games. |
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