WhatBall
Joined: Aug 21, 2008
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 Posted:
Aug 30, 2010 - 21:53 |
 
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| uzkulak wrote: | | Actually, now Im wondering if you can use piling on at all as part of a multiblock. You many not follow up either block and you need to be next to your downed opponent to PO, so Im kind of thinking you cant combine the two. |
If you choose a Both Down and your opponent doesn't have Block (you do) you should be able to use PO. (or they SStep beside you or use Stand Firm.) As long as you are adjacent.
MB can't be used on a Blitz. It specifically states Block Action (versus a block, lowercase). |
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Lakrillo
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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Aug 30, 2010 - 21:57 |
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I have sent a sequence to Kalimar to help him out.
It involves Piling on, stab and the option to not throw the second block after the first one. It is a little more code-oriented than what we have here, so not going to post it.
We will get this right before releasing it, so we can get rid of some bug-reports and duplicates of those reports which we would have received otherwise.  |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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Aug 30, 2010 - 22:16 |
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Multiple Block (strength):
"At the start of a Block Action a player who as adjacent to at least two opponents may choose to throw blocks against two of them. Make each block in turn as normal except that each defender's strength is increased by 2. The player cannot follow up either block when using this skill, so Multiple block can be used instead of Frenzy, but both skills cannot be used together. To have the option to throw the second block the player must still be on his feet after the first block."
Stab (Extraordinary)
"This player attacks an opponent with his stabbing attack instead of throwing a block."
So whenever a block can be thrown, a stab could be thrown as well. I suppose in theory, it could combine with Frenzy as well, but if used on the first block there is no follow up, so the second block wouldn't occur. You should be able to perform a stab on the second block of frenzy though if you so choose.
Another thing to note is that the blocks in Multiple Block are made in turn, and so you complete the first block action before declaring the target of the second block action. This gives you even more tactical freedom to mix and match your choice of stab or block based on the outcome of the first block (or no action if you are knocked prone from the first block). |
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XZCion
Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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Aug 31, 2010 - 04:04 |
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The current implementation of stab would work fine.
I select block action on my multistab model.
I select the multiblock option as kalimar outlined on the 1st page.
I click on a model to block, and the current stab/block option pops up.
Assuming stab is a conditional check on the skills of the model making the block/stab when clicking on an opposing model during a block, this should require no extra work at all? I.e., hopefully kalimar won't require any further coding to implement the stab skill with multiblock.
The exceptions will be with a chainsaw in cancelling multiblock the 2nd block if the chainsaw is used on the 1st block, and disallowing chainsaw use on the 2nd block if block is chosen for the 1st block.
If PO is used after the 1st block, then the 2nd would be cancelled, what with the multiblock model not being on his feet anymore. This is the same as if the 1st block resulted in a both down, with wrestle or without block, or a skull. Jump Up doesn't help here :[
Note that you fully resolve the first block; block result, push/grab/etc, AV rolls, INJ rolls if required, before moving on to the 2nd block.
Don't forget to check if assists change from block 1 to 2, especially if Grab is used, it can result in what was a 2d block becoming a 1d block if the multiblock+grab player is silly or willing to take the risk for the benefit of having the first model still in his TZ at the end of the turn, and blocking away the opposing guard model first can lead to a 1d block becoming a 2d block as well.
Multiblock, so simple to use in TT, such a bitch to code it seems :] GL Kalimar.
p.s. The choosing not to use the 2nd block should be as simple as selecting 'end action' after you've done the first block amirite? as long as it's available to choose :] |
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RedDevilCG
Joined: Jan 09, 2010
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Aug 31, 2010 - 07:17 |
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Note that you should also be able to stab on the first or second block of frenzy. However, if you stab on the first block there is no pushback and so you would not get the second frenzy block action to stab with.
One of the important points to note is that you complete the first block/stab action before declaring the second one with Multiple Block. So you get to see how your first stab/block went before deciding what to do next.
Sudden thought:
If we are being really beardy about this, would you be able to declare your second block on the same player you first blocked if he was still standing and in contact with you (and if you were adjacent to 2 players which is needed to allow Multiple block to be declared in the first place)? There seams to be no restriction on which player you can target with your second block action, just that you need to be in contact with 2 players at the start of your action to be able to use Multiple Block...... |
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XZCion
Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:18 |
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No, multiblock specifically is against 2 seperate, different opposing models that are both adjacent to you when you declare the action, as is specifically stated in the rules for Multiple Block on page 66 of the CRP... you were the one who copied the relevant text from the rulebook into the forums.
| RedDevilCG wrote: | | At the start of a Block Action a player who as adjacent to at least two opponents may choose to throw blocks against two of them. |
My emphasis. The rule does not seem ambiguous about this at all especially as it talks about each defender and each block in the next sentence. As a possible bug that needs to be avoided, thanks for bringing it up :]
You are correct about frenzy and stab though. Might go and test that right... now! |
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Sinner
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:45 |
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| RedDevilCG wrote: | Note that you should also be able to stab on the first or second block of frenzy. However, if you stab on the first block there is no pushback and so you would not get the second frenzy block action to stab with.
One of the important points to note is that you complete the first block/stab action before declaring the second one with Multiple Block. So you get to see how your first stab/block went before deciding what to do next.
Sudden thought:
If we are being really beardy about this, would you be able to declare your second block on the same player you first blocked if he was still standing and in contact with you (and if you were adjacent to 2 players which is needed to allow Multiple block to be declared in the first place)? There seams to be no restriction on which player you can target with your second block action, just that you need to be in contact with 2 players at the start of your action to be able to use Multiple Block...... |
Stabbing is not blocking! Says so in the stab skill.
| LRB 6 - Stab wrote: | | This player may attack an opponent with their stabbing attack instead of throwing a block at them. |
So basically no stabbing frenzy. And while I am at it: Frenzy requires you to block the same opponent twice if you and opponent are still standing and you were not prevented from lack of movement or following up.
| LRB 6 - Frenzy wrote: |
If a 'Pushed' or 'Defender Stumbles'
result was chosen, the player must immediately throw a second block
against the same opponent so long as they are both still standing and
adjacent.
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And finally: Multiblock excludes frenzy...
| LRB 6 - Multiple Block wrote: |
The player cannot follow up either block when using this skill, so
Multiple Block can be used instead of Frenzy, but both skills cannot be
used together.
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Sinner
Darkie's Dreams - successfully cherrypicking any race, any coach, any rating, any number of DP since 20/09/2003 ... and still winning! |
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Sinner
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 31, 2010 - 11:51 |
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Though I see this will result in a discussion about actions and atomic parts of actions 
I think stabbing is part of a block or blitz action but is not a block - as in 'throw a block' |
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Lakrillo
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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Aug 31, 2010 - 11:58 |
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@Sinner:
There is a difference in block and Block. The Block is the action, while block is when you roll the dice.
stab can be used instead of a block. So can be used even if you have frenzy, if you use it on the first block in frenzy, the second never happen as you don't roll pushback in any way. If you use it at the second block the action ends after that stab.
Simple as that. |
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uuni
Joined: Mar 12, 2010
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Aug 31, 2010 - 13:33 |
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I concur with lakrillo's latest. Stab can replace the 1st or the 2nd throwing of a block in Frenzied blocking. Second block does not get thrown unless the first was a block that resulted somehow with a Push result (Juggernaut etc).
***
Also I have a feeling that Stab would not trigger the use of Dump-Off, because Dump-Off is triggered when a block is thrown against the Dump-Offing player. Throwing a stab seems to replace the throwing of a block. It could be argued that throwing a stab is a kind of throwing a block, which would trigger the Dump-Off. Still, I find it more compelling to think throwing-a-block and throwing-a-stab as similar steps of Action. Perhaps as a some sort of sibling-relation instead of a child/inheritance-relation - both have the same parent class of step of Action, perhaps also the leave-a-square, throw-a-pass, commit-a-foul and give-a-handoff would be children of this parent class. This is how I have interpreted it, but others might have different views. |
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f_alk
Joined: Sep 30, 2005
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Aug 31, 2010 - 14:20 |
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As the rules say that Stab can be used "instead" of throwing a block, and Dump Off is triggered by a throwing a block. So, Stab (and Chainsaw) will not trigger Dump Off - as no blocks are thrown, whereas Ball&Chain will (Move Action - but throwing blocks).
(edit: checked for that, and a few other dump-off related things... quite some work to do for Kalimar  ). |
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jarvis_pants
Joined: Oct 30, 2008
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Someone mentioned the +1 if the player dosent go down but from how i read the rules u dont take any assists into account you just add +2 to the strength no? |
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Lakrillo
Joined: Sep 12, 2007
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Aug 31, 2010 - 15:42 |
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Both blocks are resolved as usual with +2 strength to the defending players. That means that you should check for block assists in both blocks as normal. |
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Kalimar
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
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Aug 31, 2010 - 15:43 |
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@F_alk: I don't think so (unless u prove me otherwise), as both is a Block action and I would read "throwing a block" as "doing a Block action". |
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maysrill
Joined: Dec 29, 2008
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Aug 31, 2010 - 15:45 |
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| Lakrillo wrote: | | Both blocks are resolved as usual with +2 strength to the defending players. That means that you should check for block assists in both blocks as normal. |
Yup, and it includes the [i]other[i/] target of the multiple-block, as well. If they both have Guard, there is no way to get around their assists helping each other. |
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