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Team Value and Pact
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Ravenmore



Joined: Sep 10, 2008
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 19:17 Reply with quote Back to top
TheSpoonyBard wrote:

Where I come from, "not munchkin-proof" is a sign of bad design.


Just saying that the teams were designed with leagues tournaments and progression in mind, where the opposition forces you into higher TV. In BBox your TV doesn't have to move one inch for any purpose, really.

Kinda like taking an SUV to a drag race and saying it doesn't do well 'cuz of bad design.
It's just not what it was intended for Smile
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 19:24 Reply with quote Back to top
pizzamogul wrote:
I don't understand what's wrong with a human lineman with mutations access for the price of a human lineman. It's okay because it's fluffy!

The team comes without any skills at all, also humans have access to 4 blitzers and 2 throwers.

However, the human roster is the actual design flaw.

Pact isn't particularly stronger than other bash teams.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 20:49 Reply with quote Back to top
pizzamogul wrote:
I don't understand what's wrong with a human lineman with mutations access for the price of a human lineman. It's okay because it's fluffy!


Well, if you compare an all human lineman team with a Pact all Marauder team,
the human linemen get their rerolls cheaper, so their is some kind of balance there.

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Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 20:51 Reply with quote Back to top
Grod wrote:
pizzamogul wrote:
I don't understand what's wrong with a human lineman with mutations access for the price of a human lineman. It's okay because it's fluffy!


Well, if you compare an all human lineman team with a Pact all Marauder team,
the human linemen get their rerolls cheaper, so their is some kind of balance there.


LOL!

Good one Very Happy

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soranos



Joined: May 14, 2009
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 21:15 Reply with quote Back to top
Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
I'm just curious. Because some team builds just don't seem quite right.

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=641881

This makes me wonder what gives with Team Value. Yes it's obviously built to take on bashers. But at the TV the team is at, and has always been at it works equally as well vs AG teams.

This seems quite cheesy to be honest. What am I missing here?


Short questions: Have you asked the coach of that team to give you his consent about using his team as an example for this thread. If not, I would consider this bad style.

No, it is not the end of the world. But your post has the undertone of "look at the cheesy team of this lamer". You could have made your point without putting the spotlights on another coach.
plasmoid



Joined: Nov 03, 2009
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 21:19 Reply with quote Back to top
If anybody cares, the team was first designed/tested with Marauders at 60K.
And they tanked pretty bad.
Paying 5-10 TV for sheer potential was rough on the team.

Like the price or not, they aren't overperforming as a team. AFAIK.
Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 21:36 Reply with quote Back to top
soranos wrote:
Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
I'm just curious. Because some team builds just don't seem quite right.

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=641881

This makes me wonder what gives with Team Value. Yes it's obviously built to take on bashers. But at the TV the team is at, and has always been at it works equally as well vs AG teams.

This seems quite cheesy to be honest. What am I missing here?


Short questions: Have you asked the coach of that team to give you his consent about using his team as an example for this thread. If not, I would consider this bad style.

No, it is not the end of the world. But your post has the undertone of "look at the cheesy team of this lamer". You could have made your point without putting the spotlights on another coach.


No I haven't asked him and I wont ask him. But thank you for asking. Smile

No, this thread is not about one specific team. It's about Pact, in particular the all marauder (+ one DE) meta-gaming. I'm so sorry if you got the impression just because I used one team as an example.

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TheSpoonyBard



Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 21:37 Reply with quote Back to top
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=641881

Hey everyone, look at the cheesy team of this lamer. I think it's pretty lame. Do you?

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Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top
Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
No, this thread is not about one specific team. It's about Pact, in particular the all marauder (+ one DE) meta-gaming.

Seriously, it merely takes 12 vanilla MA 6 dudes and a dark elf to scare you off? Laughing
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 21:45 Reply with quote Back to top
Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
t0tem wrote:
are you getting at that marauders are too cheap?


Yes


it's balanced because pact teams have to pay 70k for the same reroll that humans pay 50k for.

got to look at the whole team, not just one piece of it.

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Mr_Foulscumm



Joined: Mar 05, 2005
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 21:47 Reply with quote Back to top
Arktoris wrote:
Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
t0tem wrote:
are you getting at that marauders are too cheap?


Yes


it's balanced because pact teams have to pay 70k for the same reroll that humans pay 50k for.

got to look at the whole team, not just one piece of it.


Ah yes, but meta gaming in Box you want to keep the TV down. So 2 RRs seems to be enough, add a leader to that and you get a third RR for just 20k.

Sometimes I can see the big picture.

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Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 22:31 Reply with quote Back to top
Mr_Foulscumm wrote:
Ah yes, but meta gaming in Box you want to keep the TV down. So 2 RRs seems to be enough, add a leader to that and you get a third RR for just 20k.

Sometimes I can see the big picture.

OK now, I think we all can agree that chaos pact marauders and a dark elf are stronger than a human linemen team.

Your point exactly?


Last edited by Frankenstein on %b %30, %2011 - %22:%Jan; edited 1 time in total
Panda_



Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 22:32 Reply with quote Back to top
Yes they look under the par, and a lot.

However, they have a Box Win Rating of 149.87
Their Box Bash Rating is 151.96

I don't know if the Blackbox summary updated from the DB, but from that point of view this look to be balanced.

Also, I've got the same issue with team filled of skilled positionals and mercenaries.

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Igvy



Joined: Apr 29, 2007
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 22:59 Reply with quote Back to top
TheSpoonyBard wrote:
Ravenmore wrote:
It's not bad design, just not munchkin-proof enough for fumbbl standards


Where I come from, "not munchkin-proof" is a sign of bad design.


Couldn't agree more, but if you can't beat them - join them.
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=642967&displaymessage=This%20team%20is%20ready%20to%20play

Also the start for this team is really hard.but once everyone has guard life will be good.
t0tem



Joined: Mar 29, 2010
Post   Posted: Jan 30, 2011 - 22:59 Reply with quote Back to top
Carnis wrote:

Another efficient build if you're looking for it is 6 chaos dwarves & 6 hobgobs.


incidentally another favourite of the coach whose name shall not be named

no point in complaining about it though, it is bbox that is not balanced. soon as R is back up you dont have to worry about it anymore.
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